Roberto Firmino

[Exiled_red]

I disagree ... you cannot go around accusing people of people racist unless you are 100% sure, if you are not and you go ahead and make the accusation anyway, you should be in serious trouble. You are damaging a persons reputation. Bobby will have this ****ing shadow over his head now regardless. Two wrongs do not make a right. He pushes someone into the advertising boards at speed, then falsey accuses him of racism, throw the book at him.

For me this is a difficult one, whatever happened I think that Holgate is convinced that Firmino has said something racist, you can see his behaviour flip almost instantly. Now he could have misheard (or misunderstood) what Firmino has said but I believe that he is going to be as sure as he can be that he was racially abused. And I believe that in those circumstances players have to report such incidents. The problem here is the court of public opinion has already made it's mind up despite hearing no evidence.

I know people have said that he is just doing it to get out of card, I don't think that is what has happened I think that that would be a real scummy thing to do and would undermine alot of work to eradicate racism from football and society.

[Kenneth]

I think he deliberately misheard it (not completely pulled it out of his arse), but that's just my opinion. And yes, that would be very problematic.

[Alex]

He won't get a punishment, no. It would send out the right message imo, but that's only because I don't think his claim was genuinely made, but anyone giving him the benefit of the doubt would see an accuser punished which could indeed deter others from coming forward, which would be a bad thing obviously. And he won't get punished for the push either as an extension of that.

You really think he wants to make that claim?

[Kenneth]

You really think he wants to make that claim?

I think he did in the heat of the moment, yes. Pushing Firmino into the crowd seemed like a good idea at the time. I doubt he thinks it was sensible now.

[Exiled_red]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...ation-11813218

"Mirror Sport understands Madley has included the incident in the report he has submitted to the FA, saying that he did not hear Firmino use the N-word during the exchange between the players."

I read yesterday that the whole of Firmino's rant was in Portuguese and the n-word used was the Portuguese (and Spanish word for 'black' rather than the n-word most of us are presumably thinking of.

Again I don't know if this is true of just speculation from somewhere but if it is we may get into another Suarez like language / context / cultural discussion

[Exiled_red]

Also I found out that the referee's microphone isn't recorded it just goes to the 4th official's earpiece during the game.

[BigChief]

I read yesterday that the whole of Firmino's rant was in Portuguese and the n-word used was the Portuguese (and Spanish word for 'black' rather than the n-word most of us are presumably thinking of.

Again I don't know if this is true of just speculation from somewhere but if it is we may get into another Suarez like language / context / cultural discussion

There was an n word used? Surely the cameras showed there wasn't? Unless it was obscured by Kenny's head at that moment.

[Vermilion]

I read yesterday that the whole of Firmino's rant was in Portuguese and the n-word used was the Portuguese (and Spanish word for 'black' rather than the n-word most of us are presumably thinking of.

Again I don't know if this is true of just speculation from somewhere but if it is we may get into another Suarez like language / context / cultural discussion

Was it not reported that the word Holgate said Firmy used was the N word.

'He called me a N.......' was the accusation in one of the rags.

Also, Didn't Evra claim the same at first, then change his story, while Suarez admitted after the game what he had actually said ? which still turned out to be racist according to the FA ?

[rudedog]

There was an n word used? Surely the cameras showed there wasn't? Unless it was obscured by Kenny's head at that moment.

Yeah the cameras missed whatever Firmino said which Holgate took to be the N word due to Kenny's fat head.

Lallana is looking directly at Firmino at the same time and his face shows no reaction at all, the ref was looking away at the time but should have been close enough to hear any racial insults if they were made in English.

[Norbs]

I read yesterday that the whole of Firmino's rant was in Portuguese and the n-word used was the Portuguese (and Spanish word for 'black' rather than the n-word most of us are presumably thinking of.

Again I don't know if this is true of just speculation from somewhere but if it is we may get into another Suarez like language / context / cultural discussion

When Suarez used the term 'Negrito', which was supposely innocuous in South America, it didn't get him off the charge. If Firmino is proven to have said 'Negro' then I think he'll suffer the same consequences. Whether the FA is ignorant of South American culture or not, bringing someone's ethnicity in to an argument is asking for trouble

[rudedog]

When Suarez used the term 'Negrito', which was supposely innocuous in South America, it didn't get him off the charge. If Firmino is proven to have said 'Negro' then I think he'll suffer the same consequences. Whether the FA is ignorant of South American culture or not, bringing someone's ethnicity in to an argument is asking for trouble

I think Lallana would have shown some kind of reaction if Negro had been used.

You don't need to be Portuguese to understand that

[Nicey]

Case closed then. Nicey thinks its all bollocks so no need to check.

Isnt it possible a misunderstanding has happened? At all? Its not like Holgate has gone to the press and sold a story on it. Its been dealt with properly and not the authorities have to deal with it.

It is a serious accusation, which is why it cant be dismissed as bollocks.

No I dont think it is bollix, anything but, unless Bobby actually called him the N word, which if is the case then he deserves what is coming his way but as mentioned, if he did, everybody including the Ref would have heard it, they obviously did not by the non reaction and by the fact that the ref did not send Bobby off. What does the leave us with ? Puta .. he heard Puta in a very aggressive manner .. its no stretch of the imagination for us to think he thought puta was the N word it certainly sounds like if could be and in the heat of the moment he lost his head .... again ! this time instead of putting one of our players into the advertising board .. he pushed him right into FA disciplinary board.

Thats my opinion, obviously you have yours and good luck to you, I wont have a pop at you because it does not match mine

[BigChief]

I think Lallana would have shown some kind of reaction if Negro had been used.

You don't need to be Portuguese to understand that

Holgate knows as much Portuguese as Lallana. If Holgate understood it then so would have Lallana. But Kenny was closest to Firmino's mouth than anyone else at the alleged second and he doesn't react at all.

[Exiled_red]

There was an n word used? Surely the cameras showed there wasn't? Unless it was obscured by Kenny's head at that moment.

Was it not reported that the word Holgate said Firmy used was the N word.

'He called me a N.......' was the accusation in one of the rags.

Also, Didn't Evra claim the same at first, then change his story, while Suarez admitted after the game what he had actually said ? which still turned out to be racist according to the FA ?

Like I say I don't know how much of this is true and how much is speculation or what. You can see that Holgate clearly says to a team mate that he was called the N-word (the one everyone thinks of). Whether his explanation is a direct quote of the word he thinks Firmino used or whether his is saying that because he has heard the Portuguese word for black and to his mind they are one and the same (which I guess is fair enough in that context, as long as what he reported is the actual word Firmino used). I don't know the 'He called me a N......' headlines as far as I am aware come from the mirror' lipreading of what he says to a team mate, nothing more as far as I am aware

Someone I know on Facebook posted a picture of the end of the BBC iplayer coverage which shows a view over the shoulder of Holgate looking directly at Firmino. If this is a TV camera angle rather than a still you would imagine that (with the aid of lipreaderstwhile ) should be able to clear things up.

[Exiled_red]

When Suarez used the term 'Negrito', which was supposely innocuous in South America, it didn't get him off the charge. If Firmino is proven to have said 'Negro' then I think he'll suffer the same consequences. Whether the FA is ignorant of South American culture or not, bringing someone's ethnicity in to an argument is asking for trouble

Yes, clearly that is the case. If he said that he is bang to rights as far as the FA are concerned. He's also clearly wound up so isn't meaning being said in a friendly way if anyone thinks that that is a good line to try again

Sorry with the culture stuff etc I was more meaning for us lot on the Internet.