Roberto Firmino

[Exiled_red]

I would be astonished if after all the evidence including the official referees report points to no racist word being used how they could proceed in any way.

IF they don't have statements from the players nearby then they are open to accusations of not investigating properly. Even if the referee heard nothing.

[dww]

IF they don't have statements from the players nearby then they are open to accusations of not investigating properly. Even if the referee heard nothing.

The Eni Aluko case would suggest that the FA have quite relaxed standards as to what they think a proper investigation entails.

[Gingawaria]

The Eni Aluko case would suggest that the FA have quite relaxed standards as to what they think a proper investigation entails.

Yeah but she's only a woman isn't she.

[baitman]

A ban for the push will not help us, it's too late, he should have been red carded during the game.

correct.
if the ref was assertive he would have immediately sent holgate off even before bobby could get back onto the pitch and try and confront the puta, then there would have been no 'allegation' of anything being said by firmino.

the ref has **** it as he's been too concerned about what holgate says he thought hes heard and bottled the decision over the blatant shove in case the ref himself is seen as also being racist.

as bad as racism is the use of the race card is a very dirty trick and can be seen to dilute the severity of other genuine racist incidents as it can cloud judgement in those genuine cases.
maybe holgate genuinely made a mistake but nobody else seems to have heard the n word and they were equally close. if the allegation has been made to divert attention and save himself from a booking or sending off then he needs double ****ing.

[topscorer]

.



Again I don't know if this is true of just speculation from somewhere but if it is we may get into another Suarez like language / context / cultural discussion

You won't because after the Suarez case it was made clear that ignorance of what is acceptable and unacceptable in England is not a defense.

If he used the N word or said black in Portuguese (negro) it's an open and shut case.

[Exiled_red]

The Eni Aluko case would suggest that the FA have quite relaxed standards as to what they think a proper investigation entails.

Perhaps criticism from that gives them all the more reason to do things properly here. I have read (express IIRC) that the FA are going to interview Firmino and others nearby before deciding if they will charge him. I'mean nothe sure why the FA doesn't have the referee do this directly after the match in such circumstances. But ifor this is the case it looks like it may drag on a while longer. But at least this suggests it is being done properly

[Exiled_red]

You won't because after the Suarez case it was made clear that ignorance of what is acceptable and unacceptable in England is not a defense.

If he used the N word or said black in Portuguese (negro) it's an open and shut case.

I didn't mean the FA I meant all us lot as fans

[Doc_Piptorious]

You won't because after the Suarez case it was made clear that ignorance of what is acceptable and unacceptable in England is not a defense.

If he used the N word or said black in Portuguese (negro) it's an open and shut case.

If he said the N word, negro or negrito, then as the ref was standing between them, you would have to think that the ref could not have but heard it.

Plus Firmino was shouting so other players should have heard the word as well if it were any of the similar sounding N words.



One thing I am sure of though is that it needs to be resolved quickly and with no room for any grey areas.

A racism charge or an incorrect racism claim (be it mishearing or deliberate) need to clarified and acted upon and not let drag on.


If Firmino did something wrong then throw the book at him for it and also set the same standard for any player who does similar in the future and without exception.

If Holgate misheard, then a strong and very clear joint statement is needed from the clubs and the two players. One that explains the confusion and also has both players stressing how important it is for real racist incidents to be acted upon.


If Holgate is proven to have fabricated it, then he needs the book to be thrown at him as a fake claim is damaging to both the person it is made against and also towards actual victims of sucg abuse.

[Havors]

Actually I don't think highlighting the lack of action for the shove is small time at all. For me it is more about showing up the lack of consistency from refs and the FA than the issue involving Holgate himself and a poetntial ban.


Mane was sent off earlier this season for what was called reckless behavour and endangerment.

Firmino being pushed from behind and into the crowd should fall under reckless behaviour, endangerment and possibly even incitement as the crowd were brought into it thanks to a player landing on them.

Cullen gets caught smack in the face with a boot, and no sending off a la Mane and not even a yellow card for so called reckless or endangering behaviour.


So do the rules simply depend upon the mood of the ref on the day or the mood of the FA as to whether of not they want to look into incidents in a retrospective manner?


A rule cannot be enforced and deemed important one week and then just be ignored/overlooked for similar breaches of that rule down the line.


If the refs are not capable of enforcing or understanding the rules then they should not be reffing top level games until they are retrained and have proven themselves at a lower level.



And I do agree that the alleged racism row is the bigger issue, but that does not mean other issues should be just swept under the mat.

The FA still have that farcical rule that if the referee sees/mentions it in his report and they "cant" take any retrospective action?

Considering its the biggest sport in the world worth billions it is the most archaic in terms of video technology and government.

In my opinion Football should be refereed and use techonolgy exactly like Rugby Union.

[Kenneth]

The FA still have that farcical rule that if the referee sees/mentions it in his report and they "cant" take any retrospective action?

No. Where the red card is deemed insufficient, further misconduct charges and punishments can be issued. Where a ref dealt with something it can't be overturned, eg yellows into reds, but red cards are the biggest sanction a referee can impose but aren't the biggest sanction that FA can impose.

[dom9]

No. Where the red card is deemed insufficient, further misconduct charges and punishments can be issued.

But if a ref sees an incident and doesn't think action is required, then no.

So the push will fall into that category.

[Kenneth]

But if a ref sees an incident and doesn't think action is required, then no.

So the push will fall into that category.

Unless the ref says that he didn't see it, didn't have a clear view or owns up to a mistake, that's true.

[Buzzo]

By Metro Sport Reporter
Monday 8 Jan 2018 2:25 pm
Mason Holgate accused Roberto Firmino of calling him a ‘n****r’ during Liverpool‘s clash with Everton in the FA Cup on Friday, according to a report.

The Football Association is investigating the incident which occurred in the first half of Liverpool’s 2-1 win a Anfield after revealing that referee Bobby Madley was ‘made aware of an allegation’ during the game.

According to the Daily Mirror, who used lip-reader Tim Reedy to review the television footage, Firmino insulted Holgate in Portuguese, but there was no evidence of racial abuse by the Brazilian.

‘Holgate does not compute because Firmino is speaking in Portugese,’ said Reedy.

‘My findings are that Firmino did not use racist language.

‘Instead, he says the words, ‘Es maluco, filho da puta?’, which translates as ‘Are you crazy, you son of a b***h?’.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro.co.uk/2018/01/08/firmino-say-holgate-lip-reader-suggests-said-liverpools-win-everton-7213326/amp/

[dom9]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro.c...n-7213326/amp/

Which is what Est's myriad of expert Portuguese lip readers said in the match thread at half time.

[fidget]

There's nothing in this because otherwise talksport would have been banging on about in non stop.
Holgate is a snidey **** and if I had to place a bet on it I'd say he knew full well Firmino didn't use the N word.