Roberto Firmino

[rudedog]

Holgate knows as much Portuguese as Lallana. If Holgate understood it then so would have Lallana. But Kenny was closest to Firmino's mouth than anyone else at the alleged second and he doesn't react at all.

How do you know that?

[Nicey]

Yes, clearly that is the case. If he said that he is bang to rights as far as the FA are concerned. He's also clearly wound up so isn't meaning being said in a friendly way if anyone thinks that that is a good line to try again

Sorry with the culture stuff etc I was more meaning for us lot on the Internet.

I think its slightly different because whilst I agree there was a big cultural disconnect on the Suarez issue, Nigrita means like black girl ... its easy to see how that can be taken as a racial slur, Puta is son of a bitch ... it makes no reference to what colour said bitch is

[Exiled_red]

I think Lallana would have shown some kind of reaction if Negro had been used.

You don't need to be Portuguese to understand that

I think so too but I saw it and thought it was worth mentioning because in a way it could make more sense i.e. Firmino is ranting in Portuguese and saystaff something including that. That seems more plausible than some massive rant in Portuguese followed by some racial abuse in English. But as you say surely Lallana, Kenny or the referee would hear and recognise that and none seem to react

[Assassin]

The ref should have heard everything as he was inbetween the players, likewise the relay to the 4th official

[rudedog]

I think so too but I saw it and thought it was worth mentioning because in a way it could make more sense i.e. Firmino is ranting in Portuguese and saystaff something including that. That seems more plausible than some massive rant in Portuguese followed by some racial abuse in English. But as you say surely Lallana, Kenny or the referee would hear and recognise that and none seem to react

I think Brazilians also use 'Preto/Preta' as a term for people of African descent.

[EwarWoo]

If it was the portugese version Suarez got done for I'm sure the ref would have understood it, you'd have to be living in a cave to have anything to do with football and not know what it means.

[EwarWoo]

I think Brazilians also use 'Preto/Preta' as a term for people of African descent.

That makes more sense. Close enough to be easy to mishear. Hopefully it is a case of something as innocent as that.

[Alex]

No I dont think it is bollix, anything but, unless Bobby actually called him the N word, which if is the case then he deserves what is coming his way but as mentioned, if he did, everybody including the Ref would have heard it, they obviously did not by the non reaction and by the fact that the ref did not send Bobby off. What does the leave us with ? Puta .. he heard Puta in a very aggressive manner .. its no stretch of the imagination for us to think he thought puta was the N word it certainly sounds like if could be and in the heat of the moment he lost his head .... again ! this time instead of putting one of our players into the advertising board .. he pushed him right into FA disciplinary board.

Thats my opinion, obviously you have yours and good luck to you, I wont have a pop at you because it does not match mine

I wasn't having a pop, more to do with the cut and dry way you seem to think its impossible that its happened how is claimed and that the accuser should have the book thrown at them.

I think ignoring the lens of Liverpool, its not how anyone would see a case like this in every day life, so I just think we should be doing the same here.

[Havors]

Suarez used Negro got done. From what I can lip read I didnt notice him saying anything similar. I did notice him calling him a son of a bitch/whore. Also, you can clearly see Holgate saying "He just called me a N****r"...

The thing is Firmino also says something that is obscured by Kenny's head and it is then that Holgate flips out. Not even the best lip readers on the planet can know what he said.... I really cant come to the conlucsion he said anything racist, the ref was closer than holgate, and the other players. ONLY Holgate flips out... I personally (even though I would be bias) think Holgate has miss heard or he is purposefully trying to get him sent off.

Either that or the Ref and other players who were closer are all deaf or dumb?

[Havors]

That makes more sense. Close enough to be easy to mishear. Hopefully it is a case of something as innocent as that.

So Holgate can speak Portuguese and knows that Peta means "N****r"?

Thats a stretch. He definitely said Puta... meaning whore. Simple as that. It is what was said while his mouth was obscured by Kenny that may hold the key.

[Norbs]

I think Lallana would have shown some kind of reaction if Negro had been used.

You don't need to be Portuguese to understand that

Holgate spent the entire game pumped up but his reaction looked pretty instinctive, I don't think anyone could create a reaction like that. By that degree I think you're right that Lallana wouldn't be able to suppress reaction.

[Exiled_red]

I know that people are saying that if Holgate lied he should be punished. I don't think that is going to order should happen as all it will do is discourage others from coming forward when they have been racially abused. It will make them question whether they are sure or if there is enought evidence. Which will mean that people who really racially abuse someone will get away with it.

Unless there is clear evidence of what was said it is not possible to prove that Firmino didn’t say anything racist (there could just no be enough evidence to prove that he did).

Similarly you can't prove that Holgate deliberately made up an allegation so again that can'take be punished. If he did that is an issue for his own conscience.

If it is proven to me something that has been misheard IMO Holgate should be big enough to come out admit it was a mistake and apologise and explain.

Perhaps the least satisfactory conclusion would be if nothing can be proved or explained (there isn't proof that Firmino said anything racist and at can't be shown that Holgate misheard). That leaves Holgate believing he was racially abused and let down and Firmino is branded a racist by the court of public opinion

[Kenneth]

There is no way it could be proven if he lied about it so the talk of of punishing him for anything other than the push is a non-starter.

But it's too late for Firmino to be exonerated in the eyes of the many, even being accused will leave a permanent stain on his reputation whatever happens. Too many people want him to have said it, and bizarrely want their own player to have been racially abused. Not something Holgate will have given due consideration as he was looking to avoid the wrath of his manager for being sent off.

[Nicey]

The ref should have heard everything as he was inbetween the players, likewise the relay to the 4th official

I think the only reason he went to the 4th official was he as duty bound to tell him and allegation had been made, per the rules.

[Nicey]

I wasn't having a pop, more to do with the cut and dry way you seem to think its impossible that its happened how is claimed and that the accuser should have the book thrown at them.

I think ignoring the lens of Liverpool, its not how anyone would see a case like this in every day life, so I just think we should be doing the same here.

Yeah look I hear, but honestly, it seems everything would point to the fact that Holgate either misunderstood what was said to him or worse still pulled the race card to get out of a sending off, much like when I player goes through another player like knife through butter then rolls around on the floor claiming they are injured to avoid the red card.

I am sure we will find out what happened quite soon, if Bobby just called him a son of a bitch, then Holgagte should absolutely get a book made out of bricks thrown at him.