Roberto Firmino

[Mattshark]

Wasn't it you that said we can't rely on stats?

I said they cant be used alone, they can be used to claims of constantly giving the ball away. Ignoring them is silly.

[Fosterbloke]

I said they cant be used alone, they can be used to claims of constantly giving the ball away. Ignoring them is silly.

Fair enough

[Scratch]

I said they cant be used alone, they can be used to claims of constantly giving the ball away. Ignoring them is silly.

Surely it depends on the situation. If a player receives a pass and tried to play a quick 1-2, or flick it round the corner, to keep the move going, then their pass rate will be lower because as we know, not everytime does the pass come off in those types of areas. But I'd much rather Firmino try to be cute and clever than pedestrian and safe, so would expect his pass stat to be lower than average.

Having said that, some of his simple passes....well, they're a bit **** eh.

[G]

Suarez and his shooting infuriated many during his first season, maybe even the first two. And then he exploded because all the underlying tools where there. Same with Firmino. Not in the least bit worried about him.

[RedReet]

''Suarez can't finish''

[RedReet]

Although not sure how you can compare Suarez and Bob, as Suarez was world class from day one, just had a crossbar fetish.

[Daniel 7]

He made bad decisions at times though, like not wanting to pass. Actually forget that - when all you had around you was Downing, Adam and Carroll, who can blame him for being a bit of a ball hog!

[dww]

Although not sure how you can compare Suarez and Bob, as Suarez was world class from day one, just had a crossbar fetish.

I really don't think he was. He was a breath of fresh air but he was not scoring or creating anywhere near enough to be described as world class when he first came. Even his penalties were shocking.

[G]

I really don't think he was. He was a breath of fresh air but he was not scoring or creating anywhere near enough to be described as world class when he first came. Even his penalties were shocking.

He was deeply frustrating player for me but you could see the magic was there. He was just wildly inconsistent with it. If he was genuine world class his options wouldn't have been us or Spurs.

[redmike65]

Suarez only came alive truly when Sturridge was signed, suddenly he had a proper foil to make the space for him to do his thing.

[RedReet]

I really don't think he was. He was a breath of fresh air but he was not scoring or creating anywhere near enough to be described as world class when he first came. Even his penalties were shocking.

Was he not voted POTY in his first 6 months here? I could have made that up but he was still excellent in Kenny's first few months, playing with Kuyt, Maxi, Meireles and Gerrard, was just unlucky not to score more.

The whole team were **** next year and he wasn't as good, which is why fans started turning on him, but his class was still obvious.

Maybe world class is a bit of an exaggeration, but his class was definitely evident and certainly on a more consistent basis than Firmino (nothing against him BTW).

[dww]

Was he not voted POTY in his first 6 months here? I could have made that up but he was still excellent in Kenny's first few months, playing with Kuyt, Maxi, Meireles and Gerrard, was just unlucky not to score more.

The whole team were **** next year and he wasn't as good, which is why fans started turning on him, but his class was still obvious.

Maybe world class is a bit of an exaggeration, but his class was definitely evident and certainly on a more consistent basis than Firmino (nothing against him BTW).

I agree about your last point - there was clearly more evident promise from Suarez than Firmino. I think though that Firmino has played out of position more and shown some glimpses. I think Ozil is probably a better comparison but the general point that players can look less than stellar but come good remains. I didn't see enough of Firmino before he came to know if he ever looked like a talent capable of matching either of those two though.

Quick glance at the stats suggest in Suarez's first half season he was a 1 in 3 striker, which is decent and not much more. His next full season was similar I think.

[gratziani]

Didn't we spank United with Suarez setting up a hat trick for Dirky in the first few months or am I in la la land ?

Just remember his finishing being very erratic like Firmino's

[RedReet]

I agree about your last point - there was clearly more evident promise from Suarez than Firmino. I think though that Firmino has played out of position more and shown some glimpses. I think Ozil is probably a better comparison but the general point that players can look less than stellar but come good remains. I didn't see enough of Firmino before he came to know if he ever looked like a talent capable of matching either of those two though.

Quick glance at the stats suggest in Suarez's first half season he was a 1 in 3 striker, which is decent and not much more. His next full season was similar I think.

The thing with Suarez that I suppose that I was getting was that he never needed time to settle and he never struggled (IMO), he made an impact from day 1. He wasn’t prolific in his first 18 months and he did frustrate some, but he was still the best player on the pitch more often than not but for whatever reason was very unlucky when it came to putting the ball in the back of the net.

So I'd probably agree with your Ozil comparison more than the Suarez one as I definitely see more similarities there and although I’ve seen signs in Firmino that gives me optimism, I definitely don’t feel the same as when I watched Suarez.

(Damn it, what a **** post, I'm rushing out here and I'll never remember my real point that I failed to explain above!)

[G]

I'm not comparing their talent. Some lads you know by watching them they have everything it takes to reach the very top but it takes some of them a good while to get there. It took Suarez a season a half to get to his highest level even though for a lot of that he was still our best player, largely cos the rest were ****e. I made the Ozil comparison last week too, took him 2 seasons to get there.