Christian Benteke

[Vermilion]

I never said that stats where the whole truth did I? But Origi managed a 100% pass accuracy rate against the same defence.

Also, you are assuming the Benteke gave the ball away v centre backs in an isolated position, he didn't, he gave the ball away all the pitch.

Good points.

[baitman]

I cannot argue his passing leaves a lot to be desired, especially when the ball is played into him and his back is to goal. He is often closed.down quickly and then the return pass can be too hurried and a.poor touch.

Given the ball in and around the area he will covert more of them than any other player that we can currently put on the pitch so even with his shortcomings he still is our best option.

[peekay]

I hear you and I understand where people are coming from. I still honestly put him up there with the best strikers around ... previously I liked Carroll and I hoped for Ballo to work but I think Benteke offers a lot more than both of those ... he needs to amend his game and he will never get a better chance to become of Europe's best other than under the manager who turned Lewandowski into a household name

He is definitely better than those two. And as we saw previous season, he can be devastating when he is on form with defenders bouncing of him. I think he is genuinely trying to amend his game to be a top striker. I hope he learns to play in the Klopp system. I think he will be given a lot of chances given the injuries to others.

[RichC]

Well, it is seems unlikely that our players can pass well enough to everyone but Benteke, apparently when they pass to Benteke it causes Benteke to not be able to pass properly.

He is a mid-table player, you cannot make it at the top level with out things like passing and being able to take players on and generally barely getting involved in each game. Just scoring is not enough and hasn't been for a long time.

Did our tactics and style of play change when Benteke came on ? I agree his passing seemingly isnt at the standard we require however you also need to consider what sort of balls are coming into him and is he then isolated, stats tell you part of the picture but unless being compared like for like which is very difficult in football they're not much use

The overwhelming issue we have at the moment is we lack goals Benteke at present is our best chance of those he's currently, I believe he's 1:3 for us so far.

A very broad generalisation you've made about what types of players work and those that don't. Look at Torres for example we set up perfectly for him under Rafa and reaped great rewards when the dynamic changed at Chelsea and the team wasn't set up for him then he was far less productive - use players correctly and you can see more from them.

I don't actually think he's the right fit for us but your selective use of stats to suit your point when you feel like it or then brush off stats as they're not relevant is amusing to say the least.

In short Bentekes passing is below average at the moment but yet he's scored 1:3 in all comps for us, in the current situation I know which stat means the most to me.

[Mattshark]

Did our tactics and style of play change when Benteke came on ? I agree his passing seemingly isnt at the standard we require however you also need to consider what sort of balls are coming into him and is he then isolated, stats tell you part of the picture but unless being compared like for like which is very difficult in football they're not much use

The overwhelming issue we have at the moment is we lack goals Benteke at present is our best chance of those he's currently, I believe he's 1:3 for us so far.

A very broad generalisation you've made about what types of players work and those that don't. Look at Torres for example we set up perfectly for him under Rafa and reaped great rewards when the dynamic changed at Chelsea and the team wasn't set up for him then he was far less productive - use players correctly and you can see more from them.

I don't actually think he's the right fit for us but your selective use of stats to suit your point when you feel like it or then brush off stats as they're not relevant is amusing to say the least.

In short Bentekes passing is below average at the moment but yet he's scored 1:3 in all comps for us, in the current situation I know which stat means the most to me.

Yes, he is decent at getting the odd goal. Though for the price I'd want better because he isn't offering anything else and that costs the team as a whole. It costs the team when we give away possession so often. It costs the team when a striker is so limited in his play style, it costs the team when the striker offers little movement.

Torres had chances at Chelsea, it wasn't the play didn't suit so much as he didn't take those chances. Benteke often isn't in the position to get chances.

As for isolated, he really wasn't (that is why I put that passing map, to show where he was when passing the ball). He just doesn't didn't the ball well. He played long enough to make more than 8 successful passes all game.

And no, my stats aren't selective. I have given them context in what I would hope for in a striker and are problems he has had previously at Villa.

[Corndog]

The majority of Bentekes misplaced passes are from his head. That would suggest to me that the balls played in to him are different to the balls played in to our other forwards. This is also what you can see generally in the games he has played in so far.

Its also clearly much harder to make a headed pass than one with the feet.

Of course Firmino has attempted more passes, he is always going to be more involved in the build up given his role in the squad, as the less advanced striker or wide forward or attacking midfielder.

Bentekes goals are important, to say its not enough doesn't make sense either when you need to score goals to win football matches. More important than his low pass completion rate in a team that has scored relatively few goals.

Personally its the runs he could make off the ball but doesn't that are the area where he needs to improve most and i assume were the focus of the 'man talk'


Here is the link for Bentekes misplaced passes- http://www.squawka.com/players/chris...#1-18#accuracy

[The_weatherman]

I kind of agree with Mattshark, I've tried to be patient with Benteke and I do realise that is he's going to make an effort to change his approach and style he needs time to do so. But he's not really a good footballer is he? I mean he's a good target man and a striker but he isn't nimble or quick enough (in mind nor body) to anticipate movement. The movement needs be brought to him, he wont link play or harass players. He can head the ball, bully defenders and strike the ball but other need to bring him into play.

Matt's stats seem to back that up, and IIRC we had this debate when we were linked with him. If we are going to fit him into the side, despite the limitations we need more than 1 in 3 return IMO, we need closer to 1 in 2 because scoring goals will be his only function.

[RichC]

Yes, he is decent at getting the odd goal. Though for the price I'd want better because he isn't offering anything else and that costs the team as a whole. It costs the team when we give away possession so often. It costs the team when a striker is so limited in his play style, it costs the team when the striker offers little movement.

Torres had chances at Chelsea, it wasn't the play didn't suit so much as he didn't take those chances. Benteke often isn't in the position to get chances.

As for isolated, he really wasn't (that is why I put that passing map, to show where he was when passing the ball). He just doesn't didn't the ball well. He played long enough to make more than 8 successful passes all game.

And no, my stats aren't selective. I have given them context in what I would hope for in a striker and are problems he has had previously at Villa.

The movement I agree with and this is something that has been brought up as an issue by JK, as I've said I'm not convinced he's the right type of player for us and this is one of the issues he needs to seriously work on.

How many clear chances has been created by us this season, not a huge number also looking at the low number of converted chances we've taken we've scored a pretty low number of goals this gives the impression that this also needs to be worked upon.

As Corndog has highlighted how many of these passes were down to them being headers rather than passes with his feet ? I agree his passing needs to be better if basing it on a % of completed but you also need to consider how he's receiving the ball.

You giving context as you say to the stats doesn't mean you've not been selective all you've done is try to justify what you've pulled out from your own perspective, Its not objective.

Again at the momemt we're a team struggling for goals he's a 1:3 striker now whether he's good enough for us long term is open to debate however he is the most likely scorer for us at present

[The_weatherman]

As Corndog has highlighted how many of these passes were down to them being headers rather than passes with his feet ? I agree his passing needs to be better if basing it on a % of completed but you also need to consider how he's receiving the ball.

That's fair enough, like I said really, he's good at what he does, but I think we all agree that he's not suited to our play, which was obvious all along I think.

But he's trying to change his approach and he's the only fit striker so we need to play him and see how he does, he might surprise us yet.

Just looked it up at Sqwawka, from the last game his successful passes were 11, of which 2 were headed. The unsuccessful were 10, of which 5 headed, so it does bring his total down a bit.

[Nicey]

If he really is not suited to our style of play ... thata 3 ****ing big buy strikers in a row that somebody has signed who are not suited to our style of play

[RichC]

That's fair enough, like I said really, he's good at what he does, but I think we all agree that he's not suited to our play, which was obvious all along I think.

But he's trying to change his approach and he's the only fit striker so we need to play him and see how he does, he might surprise us yet.

Just looked it up at Sqwawka, from the last game his successful passes were 11, of which 2 were headed. The unsuccessful were 10, of which 5 headed, so it does bring his total down a bit.

I agree with his style of play not currently suiting us, he's been given a chance to remedy that by JK but whether he can do so remains to be seen, if he doesn't he'll be out the door.

[The_weatherman]

If he really is not suited to our style of play ... thata 3 ****ing big buy strikers in a row that somebody has signed who are not suited to our style of play

I think it was another panic signing, the truth is that there were few "proven" strikers going around last summer, and of the ones who were among the high scorers in their leagues Benteke was one of very few who was relatively young and attainable.

[RichC]

Panic buy is a little harsh I think it was party down to who was available but also who was willing to come to us at the time. Hopefully with JK we'll have some more pulling power in the transfer market, I mean who wouldn't want to play for him

[gratziani]

I have liked reading the views on Benteke last couple of pages , been some polarised views which explain the reasoning on both sides.

Thing is if he didn't come on against Leicester we only get a draw, I know we keep going on about the money but that does not mean a thing to me.

Last year we had Ballo , Borini and Lambert coming off the bench who did not contribute a thing to the team.

I really don't mind having Benteke as 2nd or 3rd choice.

We have 20 plus million players as subs in all positions now .

[Nicey]

I have liked reading the views on Benteke last couple of pages , been some polarised views which explain the reasoning on both sides.

Thing is if he didn't come on against Leicester we only get a draw, I know we keep going on about the money but that does not mean a thing to me.

Last year we had Ballo , Borini and Lambert coming off the bench who did not contribute a thing to the team.

I really don't mind having Benteke as 2nd or 3rd choice.

We have 20 plus million players as subs in all positions now .

Which is actually a good thing ... Benteke is class ... he will do just fine for us