Jürgen Klopp

[Corndog]

What sums it up is that we've signed and subsequently ruined promising keepers. There are also good and bad coaches and I've seen nothing of Acherberg that suggests he's worthy of his position

Have you actually seen anything of Achterberg asides from a few photos on the site or him warming up the keepers pre-game (not being a smartarse, asking because I haven't)

[Red_Polo]

What sums it up is that we've signed and subsequently ruined promising keepers. There are also good and bad coaches and I've seen nothing of Acherberg that suggests he's worthy of his position

Except these comments from Klopp, presumably?

I've not seen anything else to convince me of him either tbh. Then again there's next to no evidence he's bad either. I doubt any of these lot will go on to be reliable for a club of similar standing. It's a tough position to fill satisfactorily, as evident in struggles others have had over the years.

[baitman]

Except these comments from Klopp, presumably?

I've not seen anything else to convince me of him either tbh. Then again there's next to no evidence he's bad either. I doubt any of these lot will go on to be reliable for a club of similar standing. It's a tough position to fill satisfactorily, as evident in struggles others have had over the years.

To be honest im not convinced by what klopp says on the matter, i have heard plenty of bullsht from managers in the past and quite happy to stand by my own opinions.

Although i have no first hand knowledge of what achterberg does or does not bring to the coaching role its plain to see that his track record is abysmal and anyne coud see this.
Klopp can try to dress this up however he wants but to ruin so many keepers is beyond negligence.

Maybe becker is if sufficiently strong character to not have the confidence and enthusiasm sucked out of him so maybe the achterberg curse will not claim another victim, but i wouldnt want to have this poison cunt anywhere near our £60m saviour.

[Mark79]

We can only really judge coaches by what we see from their players on the pitch.
It doesn't look great, does it?

Has Actherberg just been really unlucky for 7 years?.

If Alisson goes to **** too, then there can't be any doubt left imo.

[Buzzo]

To be honest im not convinced by what klopp says on the matter, i have heard plenty of bullsht from managers in the past and quite happy to stand by my own opinions.

Although i have no first hand knowledge of what achterberg does or does not bring to the coaching role its plain to see that his track record is abysmal and anyne coud see this.
Klopp can try to dress this up however he wants but to ruin so many keepers is beyond negligence.

Maybe becker is if sufficiently strong character to not have the confidence and enthusiasm sucked out of him so maybe the achterberg curse will not claim another victim, but i wouldnt want to have this poison cunt anywhere near our £60m saviour.

I think this is what Klopp was getting at. We arent pro coaches, and we dont even see the coaching that goes on. How, for example is Achterberg to stop Karius doing what he did in the CL final. To that point we were all starting to get behind Karius, which would suggest the coaching was going well.

Its a different gig being a keeper at Liverpool than it is a Mainz, or Sunderland more pressure, more minuted not making saves, and therefor needing to have amazing concentration. Alisson is an international and CL experienced keeper before we signed him. We are shopping at a different level than we ever have before.

Klopp strikes me as a pretty meticulous guy, I reckon he knows what he is doing with his coaches.

[Mark79]

I think this is what Klopp was getting at. We arent pro coaches, and we dont even see the coaching that goes on. How, for example is Achterberg to stop Karius doing what he did in the CL final. To that point we were all starting to get behind Karius, which would suggest the coaching was going well.

Its a different gig being a keeper at Liverpool than it is a Mainz, or Sunderland more pressure, more minuted not making saves, and therefor needing to have amazing concentration. Alisson is an international and CL experienced keeper before we signed him. We are shopping at a different level than we ever have before.

Klopp strikes me as a pretty meticulous guy, I reckon he knows what he is doing with his coaches.

That's a fair point. Though it's still hard to think of many other prolonged spells of consistency or improvement from any of our keepers during Actherbergs tenure.

[Buzzo]

That's a fair point. Though it's still hard to think of many other prolonged spells of consistency or improvement from any of our keepers during Actherbergs tenure.

Bottom line is, I dont think we've ever had a truly great keeper at the club. Coaching can only do so much you need the player to have the ability as well. Mignolet and Karius were hardly marquee signings.

Alisson is.

[Mark79]

Bottom line is, I dont think we've ever had a truly great keeper at the club. Coaching can only do so much you need the player to have the ability as well. Mignolet and Karius were hardly marquee signings.

Alisson is.

Reina was a top keeper under his previous coach Xavi Valero
And goalkeeping is supposedly the one position that is most dependent on the level coaching.

Good coaching brings improvements, saying it can only do so much doesn't work as an excuse for me.

Mignolet and Karius both arrived as much better keepers than they are now.

The worry for me is that every keeper going back to Reina has gone the same way with Big John. Weird positioning, poor decision making, scatty on crosses, confidence shot to pieces.

[RichC]

I don’t believe that Mignolet and Karius were much better keepers than when they arrived, from the physical side of things both have made good saves but also have the same flaws in their games they’ve always had. The mental side of things is where I think the biggest issues lie, playing for Liverpool is far higher pressure than either of their previous clubs there is also the concentration issue where in general they’re to be expected to be called upon far less with us than either Sunderland or Mainz.

For me the biggest issue with both of them is they appear mentally weak in comparison to too keepers in our league.

It’s all moot as bottom line is Klopp seems happy with the set up, if he wasn’t there would have been changes:

Remember with the improvements at the back certainly since VVD we were pretty solid at the back in the league,

[Mark79]

I don’t believe that Mignolet and Karius were much better keepers than when they arrived, from the physical side of things both have made good saves but also have the same flaws in their games they’ve always had. The mental side of things is where I think the biggest issues lie, playing for Liverpool is far higher pressure than either of their previous clubs there is also the concentration issue where in general they’re to be expected to be called upon far less with us than either Sunderland or Mainz.

For me the biggest issue with both of them is they appear mentally weak in comparison to too keepers in our league.

It’s all moot as bottom line is Klopp seems happy with the set up, if he wasn’t there would have been changes:

Remember with the improvements at the back certainly since VVD we were pretty solid at the back in the league,

I don't remember Mignolet having problems at Sunderland, granted different team, different level of pressure etc.

Karius is, by all accounts of those knew him from Mainz, a shadow of the confident decisive keeper he was, and that's even prior to Kiev.

[frank the tank]

I think VVD brought the improvement in Karius. It was like a light switch watching our defence pre- and post-VVD!!!

For me, it is totally different playing as a goalie for a top club like LFC compared to a Sunderland or a Mainz. Mignolet is a good goalie. Karius is a good goalie. But when you play for LFC, there could be only 2 or 3 times during a game you are required. The concentration levels must be another level when you play for a top club.

Brad Friedel is a good example. ****in garbage for us but went on to be a much better player with Blackburn, Villa and Spurs.

Look at how long it took the Mancs to replace Schmichel.

With Alisson, you hope to **** he is the real deal. If he is, then that is a great platform for us to start from.

When you look at the team that started last season compared to the team right now, it is funny. We have lost one of the best attacking players in the world. But our team is so much ****in better (partially because 12 months ago, nobody knew that Salah was one of the best 5 players in the world!).

****in exciting times.

[RichC]

I don't remember Mignolet having problems at Sunderland, granted different team, different level of pressure etc.

Karius is, by all accounts of those knew him from Mainz, a shadow of the confident decisive keeper he was, and that's even prior to Kiev.

As I said it’s down to the mental side of things not the physical attributes of keeping.

Expectations, concentration and just the pressure of being our Number 1 will be immense both have shown that’s more than anything that’s what they lack

[Chris]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

[RichC]

I think VVD brought the improvement in Karius. It was like a light switch watching our defence pre- and post-VVD!!!

For me, it is totally different playing as a goalie for a top club like LFC compared to a Sunderland or a Mainz. Mignolet is a good goalie. Karius is a good goalie. But when you play for LFC, there could be only 2 or 3 times during a game you are required. The concentration levels must be another level when you play for a top club.

Brad Friedel is a good example. ****in garbage for us but went on to be a much better player with Blackburn, Villa and Spurs.

Look at how long it took the Mancs to replace Schmichel.

With Alisson, you hope to **** he is the real deal. If he is, then that is a great platform for us to start from.

When you look at the team that started last season compared to the team right now, it is funny. We have lost one of the best attacking players in the world. But our team is so much ****in better (partially because 12 months ago, nobody knew that Salah was one of the best 5 players in the world!).

****in exciting times.

[dom9]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

Yep