Boxing

[Tee]

There's none of that here - Khan can be rightly criticised and all of it here is justifiable - but I stand by my belief that there is some pretty sinister, latent racism where Khan is concerned from a good chunk of his detractors in this country.

Perhaps I make the mistake of going too hard against his detractors on this site tbf, so that's it no more on that subject from me.

Khan has been on Twitter and basically said that he will fight Brook when the time is right for him. I agree that Brook is just seeing it as his big payday and Khan is rightly making him sweat.

[Doc_Piptorious]

How can anyone say that Amir has done nothing outstanding in his career? That is a laughable and quite frankly bitter thing to say. Give him some credit for becoming a WC FFS.

He still has lots of fight options down the line, including rematches to avenge defeats. He has agreed to fight Kelly Brook in the next 12 months as well.

He just cannot win with UK fight fans and I cannot but help think why. I am not a massive fan of him as a person but some of the unfair stick he gets in this country makes me want to get his back.

I was lucky enough to spend time on Monday in a prominent UK pro boxing gym and spoke at length with an ex World Champ about Khan amongst other things. He agreed with me that Amir gets it bad in the UK and reckons he is going to beat Kelly when they eventually meet. He is not the only one who said that in this gym either.

There are lots of belt holders out there that are not highly regarded due to never having faced top fighters or having "earned" their title shots (along with comfortable opponents thanks to the pull of their promoters).

Nothing new in that and nothing new in some World Champions being seen as mere custodians of the strap until a genuine top tier fighter (or at least one better than they are) takes the belt from them.


Those weaker belt holders will have worked hard to get to where they are as they will have put in the hours to train and what not, but guess what so has every journeyman fighter out there and I don't see people lining up to lavish praise on them for training hard and going the extra mile to get to where they are. Working hard should be a given in boxing regardless of whether you are top tier or making up the numbers.


As some on here know I am pretty close with a current world champion and I have nothing but respect for the effort and work he has put in to get himself into a position from which he won the strap, but my friendship with him is not enough to blind me to the fact that having a current world title does not make him a top tier fighter or that his career has been outstanding (in terms of the actual division rather than in terms of personal achievement) just because he has the strap.

But you seem to be arguing that he has done something outstanding in his pro career. So you take the stage then and list off the outstanding fighters he has beaten, or the outstanding way he has won his belts over the years.

Have a feeling you are going to find it difficult to find outstanding fighters on his record and I am struggling to see how any fight that he has had could truly be seen as being an outstanding one given the level of fighters he has met to date.


As for Khan getting it bad in the UK. Well maybe a lot of that is down to folks not swallowing the bull**** his PR team like to spout off and his record being seen for what it is. Good but nowhere near top class to date.


The guy has talent. He has some really good physical traits (some natural, and some that he had to really sweat to realise them) but he has fought nobody from the top table yet and what bugs a lot of people is that he talks about himself as being a fighter who has beaten the best and who is one of the best. Simple fact is that he has yet to back up his own claims and he will be called on that by boxing fans until he does show that he can hang with the best and more importantly beat the best.


As for an ex World champion saying Khan gets it rough in the UK. Well I am sure that there are plenty in the game that will say that his hype has been justified, just as there are plenty who think he is talented but has been protected/well managed and that his record to date is a tad manufactured.

It is all about opinions, but until he starts adding some genuine higher level names to his W column, he is going to continue to be viewed as a fighter who operates at a level or two below the best.


Said it before in this thread, but if Khan called it a day on his career right now there is no way his record stands up to being called outstanding and there is no way he could be called an outstanding champion or having had mixed it with the best the divisions he competed in could offer.


His personality does not matter a jot to me when it comes to gauging him as a boxer. There are plenty of assholes that I have known, met and/or watched over the years that were amazing once they got into the ring and who had amazing careers, but Khan is a guy who so far in his career has proven that he is a stand out fighter only against a certain level of opponent, and it is on him whether or not he goes on to prove people right or wrong as to his ability to put his name alongside those of genuine high quality fighters and alongside those of genuine top tier fighters.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Perhaps I make the mistake of going too hard against his detractors on this site tbf, so that's it no more on that subject from me.

Khan has been on Twitter and basically said that he will fight Brook when the time is right for him. I agree that Brook is just seeing it as his big payday and Khan is rightly making him sweat.

Don't see much wrong in how you have expressed your own opinions on the subject, and if you disagree with folks then there is no reason for you not to say why.


I disagree with a lot of what you have said regarding Khan, but disagreements that get debated are what make threads like this one and sites like EST fun to be part of. Plus reading posts like yours help paint a picture of the other side of the Khan debate.

[marcus50bucks]

Perhaps I make the mistake of going too hard against his detractors on this site tbf, so that's it no more on that subject from me.

Khan has been on Twitter and basically said that he will fight Brook when the time is right for him. I agree that Brook is just seeing it as his big payday and Khan is rightly making him sweat.

Yet Khan looks to be trying the easy route to get to Mayweather and Pacquiao but I don't see you being critical of him for doing just that. Lets also remember that Khan facing Brook would be his biggest pay day too.

[marcus50bucks]

There are lots of belt holders out there that are not highly regarded due to never having faced top fighters or having "earned" their title shots (along with comfortable opponents thanks to the pull of their promoters).

Nothing new in that and nothing new in some World Champions being seen as mere custodians of the strap until a genuine top tier fighter (or at least one better than they are) takes the belt from them.


Those weaker belt holders will have worked hard to get to where they are as they will have put in the hours to train and what not, but guess what so has every journeyman fighter out there and I don't see people lining up to lavish praise on them for training hard and going the extra mile to get to where they are. Working hard should be a given in boxing regardless of whether you are top tier or making up the numbers.


As some on here know I am pretty close with a current world champion and I have nothing but respect for the effort and work he has put in to get himself into a position from which he won the strap, but my friendship with him is not enough to blind me to the fact that having a current world title does not make him a top tier fighter or that his career has been outstanding (in terms of the actual division rather than in terms of personal achievement) just because he has the strap.

But you seem to be arguing that he has done something outstanding in his pro career. So you take the stage then and list off the outstanding fighters he has beaten, or the outstanding way he has won his belts over the years.

Have a feeling you are going to find it difficult to find outstanding fighters on his record and I am struggling to see how any fight that he has had could truly be seen as being an outstanding one given the level of fighters he has met to date.


As for Khan getting it bad in the UK. Well maybe a lot of that is down to folks not swallowing the bull**** his PR team like to spout off and his record being seen for what it is. Good but nowhere near top class to date.


The guy has talent. He has some really good physical traits (some natural, and some that he had to really sweat to realise them) but he has fought nobody from the top table yet and what bugs a lot of people is that he talks about himself as being a fighter who has beaten the best and who is one of the best. Simple fact is that he has yet to back up his own claims and he will be called on that by boxing fans until he does show that he can hang with the best and more importantly beat the best.


As for an ex World champion saying Khan gets it rough in the UK. Well I am sure that there are plenty in the game that will say that his hype has been justified, just as there are plenty who think he is talented but has been protected/well managed and that his record to date is a tad manufactured.

It is all about opinions, but until he starts adding some genuine higher level names to his W column, he is going to continue to be viewed as a fighter who operates at a level or two below the best.


Said it before in this thread, but if Khan called it a day on his career right now there is no way his record stands up to being called outstanding and there is no way he could be called an outstanding champion or having had mixed it with the best the divisions he competed in could offer.


His personality does not matter a jot to me when it comes to gauging him as a boxer. There are plenty of assholes that I have known, met and/or watched over the years that were amazing once they got into the ring and who had amazing careers, but Khan is a guy who so far in his career has proven that he is a stand out fighter only against a certain level of opponent, and it is on him whether or not he goes on to prove people right or wrong as to his ability to put his name alongside those of genuine high quality fighters and alongside those of genuine top tier fighters.

Fantastic post, I couldn't have written it any better myself.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Porter aside what big punchers has Kell fought?

The notion that Khan is the only boxer who hand picks his opponents is laughable.

As for for Hearn and Brook being all in on a Khan fight and it was the Khan camp who 'ducked when has Hearn ever put one of his really big names in a true 50/50 fight. He tends to put them in either mental cash out fights abroad or home bankers.

Witness Porter vs Brook. Performance of the year by a British fighter in my opinion but i along with many others didn't give Brook much of a chance. Then look at Brooks first defence

Yep, plenty of fighters try to hand pick their opponents and every fighter, even the very best, have some gimme bouts during their career, but if a fighter is trying to push the notion that he is the best in a division or among the very best, then his track record will come under scrutiny and if his record is found to be lacking by the standards the best in the division should be held to, well then that fighter cannot have any complaints if he is seen to be more fart than fury.




As for Kell Brook's record against that of Khan's.

Khan's is better and I don't think there would be much debate on that. But I do not think many, if anyone, on here would try and argue that Kell Brook is anywhere near being a top tier fighter and the fact he has a strap does not make his record look any better.


Khan vs Brook? Khan wins that one in my eyes and probably stops Brook, but Khan needs to be beating guys of the level of Broner and Brook on a fairly regular basis if he wants to be regarded as top tier because, and no disrespect meant to Brook and Broner, they are the level of fighter that the top guys put away maybe every third or fourth fight.

[fidget]

How can anyone say that Amir has done nothing outstanding in his career? That is a laughable and quite frankly bitter thing to say. Give him some credit for becoming a WC FFS.

He still has lots of fight options down the line, including rematches to avenge defeats. He has agreed to fight Kelly Brook in the next 12 months as well.

He just cannot win with UK fight fans and I cannot but help think why. I am not a massive fan of him as a person but some of the unfair stick he gets in this country makes me want to get his back.

I was lucky enough to spend time on Monday in a prominent UK pro boxing gym and spoke at length with an ex World Champ about Khan amongst other things. He agreed with me that Amir gets it bad in the UK and reckons he is going to beat Kelly when they eventually meet. He is not the only one who said that in this gym either.

I like Khan,enjoy watching him box and agree that he gets a hard time in this country and it's certainly down to his ethnicity but that doesn't stop me agreeing entirely with Jaco.

[Tee]

I like Khan,enjoy watching him box and agree that he gets a hard time in this country and it's certainly down to his ethnicity but that doesn't stop me agreeing entirely with Jaco.

Respect that totally.

[marcus50bucks]

Yep, plenty of fighters try to hand pick their opponents and every fighter, even the very best, have some gimme bouts during their career, but if a fighter is trying to push the notion that he is the best in a division or among the very best, then his track record will come under scrutiny and if his record is found to be lacking by the standards the best in the division should be held to, well then that fighter cannot have any complaints if he is seen to be more fart than fury.




As for Kell Brook's record against that of Khan's.

Khan's is better and I don't think there would be much debate on that. But I do not think many, if anyone, on here would try and argue that Kell Brook is anywhere near being a top tier fighter and the fact he has a strap does not make his record look any better.


Khan vs Brook? Khan wins that one in my eyes and probably stops Brook, but Khan needs to be beating guys of the level of Broner and Brook on a fairly regular basis if he wants to be regarded as top tier because, and no disrespect meant to Brook and Broner, they are the level of fighter that the top guys put away maybe every third or fourth fight.

There is nothing logical in Khan choosing Algieri over Brook whatsoever, just pure backlash which is what the announcement has received. Even showtime have said they won't be showing the fight. What makes more sense, a fight with Brook for the IBF belt, become a two weight world champion if you win, receive your biggest pay day to date putting you in line for a unification fight against the winner of Mayweather v Manny. Or fight Algieri for less money and no belt at stake? Yes Algieri makes more sense innit

[Tee]

Khan not taking Brook right now makes complete sense. He needs to fight before Ramadan and the timescale to get such a big fight organised is not right in such a short space of time. Also, they clearly dislike each other and Khan is reluctant to give Brook that big payday that he clearly craves (he wants to make him sweat on it).

Brook has also just fought and will he want to fight again within 6 weeks? It makes no sense and Khan taking an easier option now in Algieri just buys him time to re-assess after Ramadan. Don't see why and how you of all people on here don't get that bro.

[marcus50bucks]

Khan not taking Brook right now makes complete sense. He needs to fight before Ramadan and the timescale to get such a big fight organised is not right in such a short space of time. Also, they clearly dislike each other and Khan is reluctant to give Brook that big payday that he clearly craves (he wants to make him sweat on it).

Brook has also just fought and will he want to fight again within 6 weeks? It makes no sense and Khan taking an easier option now in Algieri just buys him time to re-assess after Ramadan. Don't see why and how you of all people on here don't get that bro.

Full of excuses bro. Listen to what Hearn says 8:30 in. And Tee you're my brother and I respect you but don't patronise me about Ramadan being the issue. You're the one saying that not Khan. He's not used that as an excuse not to fight Kell and like Hearn said in the clip he needs 8 weeks max to promote the fight. You're clearly trying to justify him choosing the easy option in Algieri.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRO4XcTXPxg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRO4XcTXPxg[/ame]

[Tee]

Ok brother I will accept that Khan is ducking him and will get battered if they fight, and he has achieved diddly squat in his terrible pathetic career to date. Let's move on now.

[Chazza]

In other news.......

The price has finally been revealed for the Floyd Mayweather Jr vs. Manny Pacquiao mega-fight on May 2nd, and it’s exactly what boxing fans have been expecting it to be with the fight going for $89.95 for regular standard definition and $99.95 for high definition. This is a bump up in price from the normal; $64.99 for standard and $74.95 for high definition.

With the price being bumped up approximately $25 for the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, the question is whether the price will be going up permanently for PPV fights? With the money being so good for HBO, Showtime, the fighters and the cable distributers, it’s always possible that they could keep the prices at this inflated rate.

Of course, if that happens it could hurt the sport of boxing in a huge way, because boxing fans might not likely the idea of seeing their cable bill skyrocket up each time they purchase a PPV fight.

“The #Mayweather-Pacquiao PPV will cost $89.95 ($99.95 in HD) and will not available in movie theaters. #boxing,” Rafael said on his twitter.

While some boxing fans may not make a fuss about them having to pay a huge amount of money for the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight due to it being such a great fight on paper, there’s still going to be a lot of boxing fans who are going to be turned off by this money grab and decide on not purchasing the fight at all.

The normal thing to do when you have a glut of a product, be it oil or whatever, is to lower the price on the product, not to raise it. In this case you’ve got potentially 3 million+ boxing fans who could end up purchasing the fight on PPV. So instead of the lowering the price or keeping it the same as it’s been in the past, HBO, Showtime and the cable distributors are raising the price.

Their argument is likely that it’s such a great fight that it has more value to it than other fights in the past. It is a great fight, but it’s still tough to ask boxing fans to pay more to see it when there are already going to be a massive amount of people paying to see it.

It should be like oil production. When you have a lot of oil hitting the market, the price goes down instead of going up. In the case of the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, they’re raising the price instead of lowering it. I think it’s a self-defeating thing though, because I believe less people will wind up purchasing the fight because of the extra money they’re charging fans.

The Mayweather-Pacquiao fight is a good one, but it’s not the fight that it was five years ago, and these two not even be the best fighters in the welterweight division. The undercard isn’t very good in my view with featherweight Vasyl Lomachenko fighting Gamalier Rodriguez, super welterweight Christopher Pearson fighting Said El Harrak and super middleweight Jesse Hart facing Mike Jimenez.

There’s a ton of money that’s going to be made on this card, and you would expect that they could take some of it and put it into putting together a good undercard instead of doing it on the cheap with the current undercard.

That doesn’t make sense for this expensive card not to have a great undercard given the price that boxing fans are being asked to pay to see it. The fighters already saved money by not having a press tour. They could at least take the money saved on the lack of a world tour by putting together a great undercard so that boxing fans can see some good fights.

If the main event between Mayweather and Pacquiao turns out to be a one-sided affair, then there won’t be anything else for the boxing fans to focus on for them having paid a lot of money for the card.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/04/mayweather-vs-pacquiao-ppv-will-cost-89-for-sd-99-95-for-hd/#more-190124

[marcus50bucks]

Ok brother I will accept that Khan is ducking him and will get battered if they fight, and he has achieved diddly squat in his terrible pathetic career to date. Let's move on now.

Why are you getting all silly about this now bro. It's not what I feel about Khan or what I expect you to say about him either. You just seem to come on here and have a moan when people critique his career. You have done it in the past and then said people in the uk don't like him because of x,y and z. But then you say you're not aiming it at posters on here so why mention it in the first place when the discussion about Khan is only on this forum?

[Doc_Piptorious]

Khan not taking Brook right now makes complete sense. He needs to fight before Ramadan and the timescale to get such a big fight organised is not right in such a short space of time. Also, they clearly dislike each other and Khan is reluctant to give Brook that big payday that he clearly craves (he wants to make him sweat on it).

Brook has also just fought and will he want to fight again within 6 weeks? It makes no sense and Khan taking an easier option now in Algieri just buys him time to re-assess after Ramadan. Don't see why and how you of all people on here don't get that bro.

Seems to happen an awful lot to Khan that it makes sense for him to not fight one boxer or another and then he somehow manages to fit some extremely low risk fights into the same time period whilst trying to fool people into thinking those opponents really are top class fighters and proof of his greatness when he beats them.


My own guess is that Khan and his handlers are terrified of getting a fourth loss on his record and they are only willing to take a risk if it is a massive money fight against Mayweather jr (which he would most likely lose quite badly).


There are plenty of better fighters out there that Khan could have gone after had he wanted to test himself and many of whom would have been able to fight him in June

If he wanted to go after someone from his own weight division he could have gone after the likes of Keith Thurman, Diego Chaves, or even light fisted Tim Bradley. Thurman fought last month but came out and said say he would be willing to meet Khan in June or July.

But am guessing that because Thurman and Chaves have a punch on them we will never see Khan wanting to get into the ring with either. Realistically one would have to fancy Khan against either because neither have really beasten anyone of note and Khan should be able to best either, but we keep coming back to that problem of them being able to punch with some degree of force.


Of course if Khan wants to avoid guys who are usually in his own weight division then he could have gone elsewhere instead of going after the light punching Chris Algieri.

Two names stand out in the division below Khan's;


Lucas Matthysse and Adrien Broner.

But we again have a problem as Matthysse can hit pretty hard and Khan does not get put in against men who can punch back hard anymore.

Broner fought last month, but like Thurman he also came out and said he would meet Khan at short notice. Khan should be well able to beat Broner but instead he went for an even lesser threat from the same division as Broner.


Then we have two names who are meeting each other in 8 days time. Danny Garcia who has already taken only four rounds to stop Khan, and Lamont Peterson, the man Garcia is facing.

Am sure Khan could have gotten either of them into the ring with him in June had he really wanted to and if approaches were made in time. One of them, Peterson, I would have fancied Khan to beat.


But no we get Khan taking on yet another light fisted low risk opponent whilst many of the names I mentioned continue to take each other on.


Garcia has fought and beaten Khan, and Matthysse. His next fight is against Peterson.

Peterson is fighting Garcia next and has taken on Matthysse, Bradley, and Khan (who he beat) in the past.

Matthysse has taken on Garcia and Peterson along with a string of the same names that make up Khan's supposedly very good record.


Of all those names who has Khan fought?


Garcia and Peterson. Two losses for Khan.

Who that I named has Khan fought and beaten? In a pair of divisions where the better guys look to be trying to take each other on.

Nobody. Not one win against one of the better fighters in his own division or in the division below. Maybe one if the list was extended to include Khan beating Marcos Maidana in 2010 (and it is a win that I would rate as the best live fighter that Khan has beaten).


The opponents are out there is Khan wants them. If he wants to beat the guys who are his peers or possibly just below him in his own division then I suspect they would not be hard to find.

Same goes for the guys in the division below Khan. There would be money to be made if he called out either of the two guys from the division below who beat him in the past. Call them out and get them to come up a division to meet him. The advantage would be in Khan's favour by getting them to come to him, and there would be plenty of cash to be made if the revenge angle was played up, especially with Garcia.


But nope we are going to get Chris Algieri in June, followed by Khan talking about how he would smash Brook, Thurman, Garcia and anyone else that tries to call him out. And all this will happen whilst Khan tries to wait it out in the hope for Mayweather jr (who will beat Pac imo) picks him when Mayweather jr goes looking for a known name that he can dispatch maybe in November or December.

As I have said in other posts, it is a shame because I think Khan has the ability and physical qualities to beat most of the names I listed and have at least a 50/50 chance, if not a bit in Khan's favour, against Garcia who is the best name (in terms of ability) on that list imo.