Boxing

[Buzzo]

We'll know a lot more at the weigh in. If Joshua comes in a similar weight as he did for Ruiz 2 then he's going to try and box Uysk which is a mistake. I can't see Joshua out boxing Uysk over 12 rounds.

If he comes in heavy then he's going to try and blast Uysk out of there which is more than likely his best option.

As an aside the PPV is £25 on Sky . When did PPVs jump to £25?

Interesting, will look out for that. All of the pundits have said the same that Usyk is a pretty capable operator and it will be a challenfge for Joshua.

£25 is to me a reasonable amount of cash to actually attend the fight in person

I will look for a stream somewhere, no danger I am paying that.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Jaco,

Why bother posting in boxing? Any time you post you're generally taking a **** on the sport.

Is your contention that great cruisers can't transition to good heavyweights?

We had one of the best fights in years (the undisputed light welterweight fight) earlier in the year and there was hardly peep from either yourself or your fellow doom merchant Zapater about it.

Of course not. Holyfield is the obvious example of a great crusierweight that went on to become a great Heavyweight.


Michael Moorer would be an example of a guy who went from being smaller than a crusierweight when he went from being a damn good light heavyweight to being a pretty solid heavyweight.

Usyk however is not a great crusierweight in that he beat other great fights. He was a damn fine one though, but difficult to tell just how good thanks to how weak the division he left is. My gut feeling on him is that he would have been a proven great crusierweight though as I think he has talent, great footwork, is a clever technician, and has decent power at crusierweight level.

He is totally unproven as a heavyweight. Yet we have Sky and even Joshua himelf last night saying Usyk is a proven world class heavyweight. It is just hype on top of hype to make something seem special when the bout is certainly not so. His fight against Chisora does not really bode well for his against Joshua though. He basically outworked Chisora and at no point looked like he could really hurt him enough to force a stoppage. Had Chisora, who is pretty limited, come in to that fight in better physical condition and had the stamina to prevent the pretty awful fade he sent through from about the fifth round on, it might have been the end of any talk of Usyk being a world class heavyweight.

I have no issue if you think Joshua is a world class heavyweight (have no idea if you do or do not think so) or if you think Usyk is a proven heavyweight despite only having fought twice (against Chazza Whitherspoon and Derek Chisora)

And I do not **** on boxing as a whole. I tend to **** on the heavyweight division wheich is utter much with the likes of Joshaua and Fury being lauded as world class by promoters and netwiorks so casual watchers can feel like they are livng in some sort of golden age of heavyweight boxing and I also **** on the middleweight division for the same reasons.

I have loved boxing from when I first laced up gloves as a kid and still love the actual sort itself. But for me it has been sullied so so much by promoters, networks, multiple titles per visions and even multiple titles per organisation that it is very much a watered down version of what it once was.

For me boxing has become what a lot of people seem to be worried that football will become and it just pisses me off to see a sport I love, probably above any other sport, going through extended death throes.


As for the why bother posting in boxing....well I love the sport, I have boxed, I have coached it, so it is interesting for me when I read posts by others who either like the sport as a viewer or who competed in it like Zap did. I don't have to agree with what others post in here and will offer my own opinion even if it is not going with the flow of others and yes I do **** on certain divisions and on the politics of the sport but what I don't do is **** on any poster's right to be positive or negative about the sport or a fighter or fight.


As for Josh Taylor's fight. I think he is a smashing boxer and a smashing figher and his fight was a really good one. Sorry for not commenting enough on that but I am going through chemo and did not see that fight live. I don't always check this thread as generally it is pretty dead as most of the boxing chat here only seems to happen when there is a bigger fight in the news.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Jaco's posts in the boxing section are akin to Dan Perkins posts in the Liverpool forum

Well if my posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity, maybe you could share your own takes and knowledge of the sport to counter my negative muck?


Not meaning this as a direct dig back at you or anyone else, more saying that one or two "doom merchants" should be pretty easy to blow out of the water if others in the thread decided to have positive and detailed chats about fighters or fights. I know I would genuinely enjoy reading posts like that and would love to be able to have debates about whether one fighters had the technical skills to counter another fighter's physical advantages and then maybe have a debate breaking down what the technical skills are and how they would or would not counter something.

The only guy on here that I have ever seen discussing the technical aspects of fighters in the past is usually Zap, and he is being called a doom merchant like me

Not looking to pick a fight with you as I like your posting all over the forum tbh and do like your posting in here too.

How about this then after I have cooled down a bit after my first reply to you.

Why not try to debate me when I am being negative in future. Come back with why you think I am wrong. Attack the post and not the poster and I will try to debate you on the topic and turn it into a chat that might be less negative for folk to read? Might force me to think more about my posts too

[Shaggy]

I think you'll find I've offered up some technical analysis and forecasts, particularly when I said Usyk should punch the **** out of Bellew's face.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think you'll find I've offered up some technical analysis and forecasts, particularly when I said Usyk should punch the **** out of Bellew's face.

Though to be fair, every one says someone should punch the **** out of Bellew's face

[spud_gun]

Well if my posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity, maybe you could share your own takes and knowledge of the sport to counter my negative muck?


Not meaning this as a direct dig back at you or anyone else, more saying that one or two "doom merchants" should be pretty easy to blow out of the water if others in the thread decided to have positive and detailed chats about fighters or fights. I know I would genuinely enjoy reading posts like that and would love to be able to have debates about whether one fighters had the technical skills to counter another fighter's physical advantages and then maybe have a debate breaking down what the technical skills are and how they would or would not counter something.

The only guy on here that I have ever seen discussing the technical aspects of fighters in the past is usually Zap, and he is being called a doom merchant like me

Not looking to pick a fight with you as I like your posting all over the forum tbh and do like your posting in here too.

How about this then after I have cooled down a bit after my first reply to you.

Why not try to debate me when I am being negative in future. Come back with why you think I am wrong. Attack the post and not the poster and I will try to debate you on the topic and turn it into a chat that might be less negative for folk to read? Might force me to think more about my posts too

Hold on. At no point did i ever say that your 'posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity'

Far from it. Yourself and Zap are two of the most knowledgeable boxing posters on the forum and i used to greatly enjoy your contributions to the thread. Which is why it's maddening to see you pull this Stadler and Waldorf impression and **** all over it.

It's the same two posts time and time again. Heavyweight boxing is ****. Tyson Fury is a cunt.

You may even be right on one or both points

[spud_gun]

Of course not. Holyfield is the obvious example of a great crusierweight that went on to become a great Heavyweight.


Michael Moorer would be an example of a guy who went from being smaller than a crusierweight when he went from being a damn good light heavyweight to being a pretty solid heavyweight.

Usyk however is not a great crusierweight in that he beat other great fights. He was a damn fine one though, but difficult to tell just how good thanks to how weak the division he left is. My gut feeling on him is that he would have been a proven great crusierweight though as I think he has talent, great footwork, is a clever technician, and has decent power at crusierweight level.

He is totally unproven as a heavyweight. Yet we have Sky and even Joshua himelf last night saying Usyk is a proven world class heavyweight. It is just hype on top of hype to make something seem special when the bout is certainly not so. His fight against Chisora does not really bode well for his against Joshua though. He basically outworked Chisora and at no point looked like he could really hurt him enough to force a stoppage. Had Chisora, who is pretty limited, come in to that fight in better physical condition and had the stamina to prevent the pretty awful fade he sent through from about the fifth round on, it might have been the end of any talk of Usyk being a world class heavyweight.

I have no issue if you think Joshua is a world class heavyweight (have no idea if you do or do not think so) or if you think Usyk is a proven heavyweight despite only having fought twice (against Chazza Whitherspoon and Derek Chisora)

And I do not **** on boxing as a whole. I tend to **** on the heavyweight division wheich is utter much with the likes of Joshaua and Fury being lauded as world class by promoters and netwiorks so casual watchers can feel like they are livng in some sort of golden age of heavyweight boxing and I also **** on the middleweight division for the same reasons.

I have loved boxing from when I first laced up gloves as a kid and still love the actual sort itself. But for me it has been sullied so so much by promoters, networks, multiple titles per visions and even multiple titles per organisation that it is very much a watered down version of what it once was.

For me boxing has become what a lot of people seem to be worried that football will become and it just pisses me off to see a sport I love, probably above any other sport, going through extended death throes.


As for the why bother posting in boxing....well I love the sport, I have boxed, I have coached it, so it is interesting for me when I read posts by others who either like the sport as a viewer or who competed in it like Zap did. I don't have to agree with what others post in here and will offer my own opinion even if it is not going with the flow of others and yes I do **** on certain divisions and on the politics of the sport but what I don't do is **** on any poster's right to be positive or negative about the sport or a fighter or fight.


As for Josh Taylor's fight. I think he is a smashing boxer and a smashing figher and his fight was a really good one. Sorry for not commenting enough on that but I am going through chemo and did not see that fight live. I don't always check this thread as generally it is pretty dead as most of the boxing chat here only seems to happen when there is a bigger fight in the news.

more like it.

I'm not a fan of Joshua for what it's worth. Never have been.

I think Fury is a very good boxer. Been a fan of his from the outset. He moves with a certain grace and elegance (honestly) that a man his size has no right in doing.

It's hard to set aside the person from the athlete. Boxing is and was full of absolute cunts. Some of the all time greats (and Mike Tyson) were horrible individuals yet are lauded for their achievements in the ring.

I agree there are so many issues within the sport of boxing. There's no quick fix to any of them.

Boxing News had an idea earlier in the year to counter the alphabet soup. They're only recognising one world champ per division.

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/no-more-sanctioning-body-titles-the-new-boxing-news-stance-here/

As for the chemo i hope you're on the mend

[Doc_Piptorious]

Hold on. At no point did i ever say that your 'posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity'

Far from it. Yourself and Zap are two of the most knowledgeable boxing posters on the forum and i used to greatly enjoy your contributions to the thread. Which is why it's maddening to see you pull this Stadler and Waldorf impression and **** all over it.

It's the same two posts time and time again. Heavyweight boxing is ****. Tyson Fury is a cunt.

You may even be right on one or both points

Hang on a ****ing minute with that ****, fella.


Am I Stadler or Waldorf?

[Doc_Piptorious]

more like it.

I'm not a fan of Joshua for what it's worth. Never have been.

I think Fury is a very good boxer. Been a fan of his from the outset. He moves with a certain grace and elegance (honestly) that a man his size has no right in doing.

It's hard to set aside the person from the athlete. Boxing is and was full of absolute cunts. Some of the all time greats (and Mike Tyson) were horrible individuals yet are lauded for their achievements in the ring.

I agree there are so many issues within the sport of boxing. There's no quick fix to any of them.

Boxing News had an idea earlier in the year to counter the alphabet soup. They're only recognising one world champ per division.

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/no-more-sanctioning-body-titles-the-new-boxing-news-stance-here/

As for the chemo i hope you're on the mend

See that I cannot quite agree with. I would say he is a good boxer within certain parameters. But looking at him as a boxer in more general terms then
I see a lot of things about him that have deteriorated over the years and by that I mean things that are more down to possibly not doing the basics in training rather than age related deterioration.

I think he suffers from more than a touch of the Connor McGregor in that he reached a certain level, a peak if you will, in terms of his skillset and his application of that skillset and then seemed to stop doing a lot of it in the ring as well as he did or in videos of him training/sparring.

I can actually separate Fury the boxer from Fury the person quite easily, it is just that Fury the boxer is not impressive (by that I mean as an over all package) and less so than he may have been in the recent past.

I also think Fury has picked his opponents very very carefully. I think a lot of those he faced were picked to minimize any risk to his weaknesses maybe more than they were picked to suit his strengths.

What I have always given him credit for is his ability, and I hate how he does it as I find it as scummy as how McGregor does the exact same thing, to get into the head of an opponent. That he is very very good at and that can tip a fight in your favour before a bell is wrong. The most impressive show of this for me was in the build up to his fight against Wlad. He got into Wlad's head so much that Wlad was overly cautious of Fury's power rather than looking at the evidence from Fury's past fights. For me that will always be Furry's best win.

I do however think that Fury does, or maybe did, the basics better than Joshua does. Joshua to me is still very robotic and moves in a way that to this day reminds me of a much bigger Bruce Seldon. Just with the extra hitting power than comes from the extra size/weight/reach. Joshua I just find less interesting to pick apart stylistically than Fury as he attempts less by way of curveballs and has a very safe style that relies a lot more on his size than pure boxing ability. Put him in against a big heavyweight that could box beynd doing the basic well and that was strategic in how he changed things mid fight, say someone like Lennox Lewis, and I would fancy Joshua to be blown out of it within two rounds. Lewis would do to him what he did to Michael Grant. Grant and Seldon being the two fighters Johua always brings to mind for me.

Fury to me is someone who tries to copy stuff he has seen classic boxers do and he has tried to mimic and incorporate the styles of boxer fighters rather than more traditional heavyweight styles. I do not think he has nailed it, but you can see it in some of what he tries. Some of it makes him awkward to face, and some of it he does not need as it takes from his offensive game. But then again I do not think he minds losing offensive capabilities as he is very much a defensive first fighter and he plays the %s against any fighter there is a risk against more often than not imo.

[fidget]

Jaco bringing the truth as ever.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Jaco bringing the truth as ever.

Think that post needed a at the end of it

[Buzzo]

Hold on. At no point did i ever say that your 'posts in here are so bad and so lacking in knowledge and positivity'

Far from it. Yourself and Zap are two of the most knowledgeable boxing posters on the forum and i used to greatly enjoy your contributions to the thread. Which is why it's maddening to see you pull this Stadler and Waldorf impression and **** all over it.

It's the same two posts time and time again. Heavyweight boxing is ****. Tyson Fury is a cunt.

You may even be right on one or both points

I think throwing a 'Dan Perkins' grenade in here caused a lot of uncertaintly and collateral damage

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think throwing a 'Dan Perkins' grenade in here caused a lot of uncertaintly and collateral damage

Poor Perkins having the likes of you sully his name.

[Zapater]

And I do not **** on boxing as a whole. I tend to **** on the heavyweight division wheich is utter much with the likes of Joshaua and Fury being lauded as world class by promoters and netwiorks so casual watchers can feel like they are livng in some sort of golden age of heavyweight boxing and I also **** on the middleweight division for the same reasons.

I think this is my frustration too. I don't watch as many fights as I used to. I used to watch fights every week, now I miss the majority and on reflection wonder how I didn't know [insert notable top 10 ranked fighter] fought last week. Then I see some good fights and boxers I like the look of and no one cares. Later I turn on the TV and see Fury and the like announcing themselves as the best ever P4P and the interviewer nodding in awe.

Or even worse people telling me that they don't like watching small men fight because there aren't any knockouts. My manager at my old work said something like that after the first Canelo - Golovkin abomination when GGG had around 20 consecutive KOs before the Jacobs fight. The years with strong super middleweight, lightweight, welterweight, featherweight divisions were overlooked whilst all the talk were about the boring Klitschko's killing boxing when there were exciting fights every couple of weeks. Think it's got to me. Seeing that this has always been the discussion, I think it's the exhibitions that are making me more unjustifiably upset. Youtubers fighting on PPV ffs. If they want to fight, they should start an amateur career in some ****hole like everyone else.

But fair play, should discuss boxing - what's happening rather than what the media are shoving down our throats. I read the first few pages of this thread around a month ago when I was bored. Was interesting comparing the complaints then vs now. A lot were around Eddie Hearn's packed cards of absolute **** fights and trying to sell them as value. The Bellew vs Cleverly card had like 8 diabolical fights to endure and Eddie afterwards was like "who wants more of that!?" Meanwhile in America it was dodgy scorecard after dodgy scorecard. It was like we spoke refs more than fights. Pacquiao - Marquez 3, Pacquiao - Bradley I etc. etc. So in regard to that, we've actually been treated to some great fights over the years without that kind of controversy which I've probably taken for granted.

I do like the look of the current crop of lightweights and there are some really good fights out there. If they can get made in the next year or two there should be some good viewing. Maybe some of them can step up and give Taylor something to think about too. A lot of people say that the hardest weight class to bridge is light welter to welter, but I feel in many ways it could be light to light welter. See Linares, a guy who loves a firefight, not a granite chin, but happy to take a few. Durable in terms that he gets put down but gets back up, gets in with a big LW and is blown away. It was more harsh than the Garcia vs Spence bout for example which also showed why weight classes exist.

[Doc_Piptorious]

If I were you Zap, I would be more concerned with the Stadler or Waldorf issue.

I know which one I am and I know which one you are , but I want to know if Spud Gun knows.