Boxing

[Doc_Piptorious]

If Fury is smart he will try to tempt Usyk into fighting him next and let Joshua go earn a shot.


No chance of that though as no doubt there will be rematch PPV for Joshua called Redemption or something like that.

[kingfunk]

Shame, would of loved to see Fury bossing him. No chance Joshua gets those belts back.

[Big-Red-Ed]

Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.
I just don't get why a big man like Joshua would slim down to fight a smaller man. He should have stayed big and completely blow away the smaller man. That's what Fury would do. Usyk was brilliant. Didn't put a foot wrong.

YNWA

[labourRed]

If Fury is smart he will try to tempt Usyk into fighting him next and let Joshua go earn a shot.


No chance of that though as no doubt there will be rematch PPV for Joshua called Redemption or something like that.

Rematch clause obviously. Bit different from Ruiz though. AJ outclassed in every way.

[Doc_Piptorious]

At least Joshua was telling the truth when he kept saying over and over in the build up that there was no game plan for this fight.


Cannot understand why his corner did not instruct him to try and fight from range when they saw their fighter failing to understand the need to do so.

He seemed to be trying some weird sort of mid range thing that meant Usyk never had to work his way past a jab to get inside and meant Usyk's superior handspeed became ore of an advantage and it meant that Joshua took away his own reach advantage.

Baffling stuff from Joshua and his camp.


Not to take anything away from Usyk though as he created angles from the first round to the last, had beautiful footwork throughout, used his elbows and forearms well when Joshua looked like he was going to clinch, and then let his superior skill win out.

Fully expected a Joshua stoppage win, but got a very pleasant surprise in watching the tactical schooling Usyk gave.

[spud_gun]

Yip. I think we'll see a parting of Joshua and Rob McCracken after this outing.

Joshua's tactics are baffling.

Part of the issue is Joshua lack of ring IQ.

Usyk was masterful. Everything that made him a great cruiser he showed tonight. A world of difference from his two other heavy outings.

Be interesting to see him in against a heavy heavyweight who'll maul and smother Usyk

[Doc_Piptorious]

Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.
I just don't get why a big man like Joshua would slim down to fight a smaller man. He should have stayed big and completely blow away the smaller man. That's what Fury would do. Usyk was brilliant. Didn't put a foot wrong.

YNWA

Think Joshua would have been stopped tonight had he come in heavier. His tank would have ran dry sooner and extra weight would not help him at all with that midrange distance he kept holding throughout the fight as he would have been even slower that he was tonight.


To take advantage of extra weight he would need to fight from range and/or work on the inside where body weight would make a difference and where he could us uppercuts.

What he showed again tonight was that he does not have the nous to change tactics during a fight when things are not going his way, and even worse is how his corner were unable to instruct him to do so between rounds. Either that or he was not listening to his corner.


As for Fury and extra weight. Fury is not a power guy for me so the extra weight would not be such an issue for him whether he had it or not as his regular fighting weight would give him an advantage imo as he is a very good spoiler and would spend a fight against Usyk leaning on him and wrestling in an ugly bout.

Fury would not try to get into a clean boxing match against Usyk imho. I think he would have a gameplan quite close to what he used against Wlad and I think he would get the same result against Usyk as he did against Wlad.

[BobTheCharmer]

Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.

Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards

[BobTheCharmer]

Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards

[Zapater]

I enjoyed the fight. Pretty much how I expected it to go. Thought before that Usyk may win by KO and thought that would be on the money after those decent lefts. Usyk stepped back a little which may have been smart if he couldn't get him out early in terms of energy preservation and not being reckless. I only gave Joshua 2 or 3 rounds. Was pretty disappointed with some of the scorecards, particularly the 115-113 card. Insane judging.

Really good fight from Usyk, but that's to be expected with his amateur pedigree. It was always about if a bigger man could put something on him and Joshua didn't do that. I do think Usyk could beat Fury, but as mentioned above, it's a very different fight from this, Fury will be trying to put his fat on him and smother Usyk's tidy work. Would be a different tactical matchup.

Styles make fights, I don't know how there is any evidence in this fight that would suggest to Fury knocking Joshua out. Fury is a lot easier to hit than Usyk; slower, worse footwork/head movement, taller, has a lower workrate and would therefore result in a different matchup stylistically again. Yes, Fury could maybe move around a bit and tap Joshua but he's a much easier target and couldn't produce that workrate over 12 rounds.

Don't think a rematch bodes well for Joshua, but if he wants some more of it, he'll need to bring something different to the table. Still stand by what I said before the fight and feel that a multiple fights between these two change how they look due to the way these two could match up.

Oh and on the heavyweight obsession. Bellew on DAZN claiming that this is the best ever win by a Ukrainian and that Joshua has the best athleticism out of any heavyweight of all time. Exactly the type of comments that people believe as factual and really wind me up. Also saying something about Usyk not knowing what it's like to fight in occasions like this. I'm sure fighting Gassiev to unify the championships in a packed Olympic stadium in Moscow was a picnic of an atmosphere...

Joshua is a complete fraud and has been found out. AGAIN. He's like the Bruno of his time.

YNWA

Bit harsh on both? I don't think he's amazing, but Joshua has won most of his fights handily. He was knocked out by Ruiz, an opponent of similar quality and was outdone by the better man in this fight. He's beaten what was in front of him for the rest. Bruno had a pretty good career himself, world champ, won most of his fights, only losing to the best.

Well well well. Steve McMahon would have taken both those cunts out, no doubt breaking their legs in the process.

Yeah well in my good old days before your soft good old days, Slugger Mc Smashface would have gotten a triple concussion and still been able come back to bite off half a nose.

And been up for afters in the car park afterwards

See, I called it. 2 peas in a pod!

[Zapater]

I'm just shocked there were no takers on my Andre Ward beats Roy Jones Jr at Super Middleweight comment


Two guys who in their own way had some freakishly good physical gifts outside of their very high quality skill sets.

I'm in agreement with that. Good call. Hard to tell because when we think of Jones we think about post-Tarver Jones too even though this wasn't necessarily on the discussion in this hypothetical match up. I just think Ward is a freak, really underrated. He's every bit as good as Mayweather. His ring savvy and dirtiness take him a level up too, particularly against Jones who would be looking to get clean punches off. Breaking up his rhythm and using spoiling tactics could make it difficult for Jones to get off. I actually think Hopkins vs Ward at light heavy would be an interesting match-up. Maybe not a great watch, but a ****ing touch fight. James Toney is also a possible awkward one for Ward.

[spud_gun]

I'm not sure any Super middle would have laid a glove on the Jones Jr that shutout James Toney.

He was imperious that night

[Zapater]

I'm not sure any Super middle would have laid a glove on the Jones Jr that shutout James Toney.

He was imperious that night

I think that fight has to be considered when thinking about match ups against Ward or similar types of opponents. Toney knows every defensive trick in the book was a master counter puncher and at that stage was undefeated and was still in good shape. It's a shame none of Benn, Watson and Eubank got in the ring with Jones, Hopkins and Toney. I think, from memory Mike McCallum had quite a few of the good names on the UK and US on his resume.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm in agreement with that. Good call. Hard to tell because when we think of Jones we think about post-Tarver Jones too even though this wasn't necessarily on the discussion in this hypothetical match up. I just think Ward is a freak, really underrated. He's every bit as good as Mayweather. His ring savvy and dirtiness take him a level up too, particularly against Jones who would be looking to get clean punches off. Breaking up his rhythm and using spoiling tactics could make it difficult for Jones to get off. I actually think Hopkins vs Ward at light heavy would be an interesting match-up. Maybe not a great watch, but a ****ing touch fight. James Toney is also a possible awkward one for Ward.

Will start by saying Jones Jr is an ATG in my eyes, he was that good.

But Ward is one of the few boxers that I have watched a lot of, and then went back to watch a lot of tapes of, who did things I still cannot figure out or see coming no matter how many times I watch a replay or gets to see footage slowed down.

Jones jr did things that only Jones jr could do, but when you watched the tape you could figure out how he was doing it or what there was about him that allowed him to do it at a level nobody else could come close to matching.

Ward is the best and purest switch hitter I have seen in my life. Have watched him in fights, some from ring side some on tv, and even have seen footage of his sparring and he was able to switch stances with no tell at all at times.

I have never seen a fighter do it so well and so often, and even when you are looking for the switch and watching a round for the tenth time, you know he is going to have switched stance at a what ever minute of a round but you still cannot see any body tells that is was coming.


He could go into throwing a combination from an orthodox stance and then tha final punch or two from the combo would be getting thrown from a flawless southpaw stance and everything about his body would be in that southpaw stance. Then you play it back and there is no shoulder drop, no slight jerk in the hip, just nothing about his body movement to show he was switching stance.

His ability to do that just totally throws the other fighter, it negates a guy with faster reflexes as the faster guy is suddenly having to adjust his own stance as everything has been reversed on him, it forces a bigger hitter into defensive mode, it is just so pure and so elegant a thing to be able to do on that level.


I think against Jones Jr, Ward would be constantly changing stance and swith hitting, his defence would be good enough to take a lot of what Jones did well, and Ward's skillset was as good as that of Jones. Ward was also capable of being a dirty ****er as you say, and he had that aggreesive defensiveness that I love to see in fighters.

The Mayweather comparsion is a great one. I would agree with that as I thik Ward was on a level slightly above Mayweather in terms of talent, ring skills, ring IQ, spatial awareness and ability to change his game plan or apporach three or four times per round. Ward as also very durable and able to take hits and they guy could hit pretty well to.


Him vs Hopkins would have been fascinating. That would have gone between being a tactical masterclass for the purists to being a masterclass in dirty tactics.

Ward vs Toney I think Ward actually wins by a few clear rounds. I love Toney and think he was amazing at a few weights, but I think Hopkins could do what Toney did better than Toney and I think Ward does that better than Hopkins.

Of those four, and only taking the Super middleweight and Light heavy divsions into account I would rank them in the following order.


Ward, Jones Jr, Hopkins, Toney