Boxing

[spud_gun]

Which is why he made my list.

But he also has a hell of a lot of catchweight fights there and a lot of ones where he got to dictate when the weigh ins would be and so on, not to mentions his PED issues, so much like his steaks and milkshakes his record is somewhat tainted.

Oh no doubt there's a ton of question marks over him then again he isn't the first fighter to exploit catchweight fights. His loss is against another modern day master of doing exactly that.

Purely in terms of variety of names i found it interesting. He beat the Kermit Cintron and Mosley in back to back fights 10 years ago. For some reason that tickled me. I liked Cintron back in the day.

[spud_gun]

Usyk is a lovely boxer and really well schooled, but needs better than the likes of Joshua, Gassiev and Bellew for me to be above some of the names ahead of him. He beats Joshua again in the summer and then takes out a few of the bigger lumps that make up the bottom half of the heavyweight top ten then he will go higher as Usyk beating big albeit limited heavyweights would score high for me as he would be overcoming a size difference against most of the heavyweights from about number four or five down in the heavyweight ranks.


As for saying Taylor should be higher. He is not at Loma's level imo, not yet anyway and nowhere near Spence or Crawford imo, so I see no way to rank him any higher than I did. He did well to get fourth as being Scottish is normally a serious handicap to progression up the ranks. Plus me saying he is the fourth best P4P guy on the planet is not underrating his unbeaten run in the slightest.

If Taylor went up to welterweight in the morning I would expect Crawford or Spence to beat him so cannot justify bumping him further up if I think two guys ahead of him would beat him.

Agreed on Usyk. He's a wonderful technician.

r.e. Taylor. Not suggesting that you are underrating his run....just the public in general. He should be a superstar given what he's achieved. Sadly it's not the case.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Jaco

What are you thoughts on Thomas Hearns as a boxer

Stylistically I think he was lovely to watch when he was on the front foot. He had a jab that was excellent in offensive and defensive terms. He used every inch of that long frame, especially at welterweight through to middleweight, to his advantage and was a lot tough and more durable than he is often given credit for.

He is almost an all time great for me as he has some fantastic wins to his name, but he also lost a number of defining fights so for me that has him below Hagler and Leonard and above Duran (to use the quartet most associated with each other from that era)

I think his biggest flaw was that he often fought to the level of the other guy or allowed himself to be drawn into the sort of fight the other guy wanted to have instead of boxing smart and using his jab to dictate distance and rhythm against certain guys. Aginst Hagler and Leonard, the former in particular, he allowed himself to be pulled into going at it in a manner that suited the other guy rather than trying to fight at range and control the pace more.

His power was chilling and he had real power that he carried right up to cruiserweight. Amazing really that a giy that sarted at welter could still bang like that at Cruiserweight and for me it is something that raises a few questions as to why he did not take advanatge of that power more at some of the lighter weights he fought at.

Think he was unlucky in some ways with being around the welter and middleweight divisions at the same time as Leonard or Hagler. Remove those guys and he would have rules from welter to Middle as an all time great in my eyes (though I think Wilfred Benitez, whom he beat at middleweight, would have beaten him at welter (I rate Wilfred Benitez as one of the best welters of all time (and like Hearns he was another great welter who was beaten by Leonard)

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agreed on Usyk. He's a wonderful technician.

r.e. Taylor. Not suggesting that you are underrating his run....just the public in general. He should be a superstar given what he's achieved. Sadly it's not the case.

Tyalor, poor performance and a lucky result in his last fight notwithstanding, is an excellent boxer who can also fight. He is a top level operator in my eyes and one we do not now just how good he may be. Maybe what he has done so far is as good as he gets, in which case he is a top tier boxer or a world class one if you prefer, but maybe he has another level in him that would make him an elite one. Needs to be beating a Crawford or Spence level fights to become elite in my eyes.

But he is close either way.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Oh no doubt there's a ton of question marks over him then again he isn't the first fighter to exploit catchweight fights. His loss is against another modern day master of doing exactly that.

Purely in terms of variety of names i found it interesting. He beat the Kermit Cintron and Mosley in back to back fights 10 years ago. For some reason that tickled me. I liked Cintron back in the day.

Just taking his record in terms of names and ignoring everything else, you get the record of a world class fighter.

But the catch weight crap, the working of weigh ins to his favour (not allowing a naturally heavier man time to recover from dehydration or allowing more revocvery time when he is the naturally bigger man) are both things that rankle and dilute the wins that happened under those circumstances as they were stacked deck wins in my eyed and in the eyes of most boxing purists.

Then we have the fact he has failed drug tests and had drug tests delayed. That also taints wins as again he would have had an advantage, a chemically enhanced one in those cases, over the guys he was fighting.


So doubt then gets thrown over at least two thirds of his career as you have to start asking how many of the wins were ones that he was clean for or did not have some other angle being worked in his favour.

And it is a shame because from a technical pov the guy is good, really good, but the doubt is going to remain with regards to how much of his strength and endurance was earned naturally and how much did he have help with.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Canelo and his people again making noises about fighting Usyk at heavyweight if Usyk would agree to fighting at no heavier than 1 lb above the crusierweight limit.


The official release from reply from Usyk's camp to the offer to meet at 201 lbs?

Be our guest, Usyk will make cruiserweight for this one, but let Canelo concentrate on Bivol for now

[spud_gun]

Shades of Haye v Enzo

[Shaggy]

I'd love to see Usyk smash Canelo

[Doc_Piptorious]

I for one hope it happens.

If Usyk can comfortably make that weight without being drained then the only chance I give Ginger is that he lands a one in a million lucky shot.


Usyk was very very very good at cruiser and unless Ginger has been bombarding himself in Gamma rays and turning green he is not beating a fully fit Usyk at 201 lbs. He is not outboxing him, not out working him and not stopping him.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Tyson Fury not dropping his belts now and taking time to decide if he will retire (dropping the belts) or not retire (keeping the belts)


Frank Warren also came out and said Fury will decide if he is retiring or not and will not be rushed into giving up his belts.

It's gone from him retiring after Whyte to now looking to take as much time as is needed to decide and a comment about how he cannot be stripped of his belts until he fails to meet a madatory.

Sounds to me like he is going to hang onto those belts for a while and not formally reture.

Smarter thing to do imo is to say he has at least one fight left in him and that it will be against the winner of Usyk vs Joshua. Would keep his stock high that way and his name would then be getting attached to the hype for the Usyk/Joshua with little need for him to do anything and make it that bit more difficult for the winner to avoid him. Is what I would be doing in his shoes anyway. One press announcent to say I want the winner of that fight then go on holidays and let the boxing press and media do all the work.

[Zapater]

Watch Canelo get the decision after eating jabs for 12 rounds.

Maybe not, but 115-113 is still generous...

[spud_gun]

A 115-113 UD against the Mexican house fighter on the Cinco De Mayo weekend card is akin to a shutout.

I've not seen the fight but the various reports I've read had Bivol winning by 6 rounds.

[Zapater]

Taylor is at number 8 in the official rankings.

But in the P4P ratings that matter, the Jaco P P4P, Taylor is up to number four. He does drop to fifth if I do a male/female combined rankings though but fourth in that case still is a Taylor . I had it in my head the other day that K Taylor would be 3rd in my combined rankings, but had forgotten to add Loma.


Jaco P Official P4P Rankings

1. Crawford
2. Spence jr
3. Lomachenko
4. J. Taylor
5. Davis
6. Ginger Balls - cannot totally erase the fecker
7. Inoue
8. Estrada
9. Gonzalez
10. Uysk

Fury would make my top twenty atm, actually he gets into my top 15, but guys like Joshua and especially Wilder should be nowhere near a top 20 P4P list, not even one made by Helen Keller.

I'd challenge the two in bold. I'd put Canelo around 10th. Good fighter but for me he lost to (at least) Lara, Jacobs, Mayweather, Golovkin x2 and now Bivol. His record reads two defeats but that's 6 in my books. Obviously really good but no one would be swooning over him without the gift decisions.

Josh Taylor hasn't even fought 20 times as a pro and just had his face smashed in by a domestic level fighter. Hasn't fought Zepeda, Hooker etc. Apart from the Ramirez and Prograis (many people scored this a draw or the other way) fights, what has he done that other's in the division couldn't?

[Zapater]

A 115-113 UD against the Mexican house fighter on the Cinco De Mayo weekend card is akin to a shutout.

I've not seen the fight but the various reports I've read had Bivol winning by 6 rounds.

He outlanded him by 200 punches. I think it was around 700 to 500 at the end of the day. I know it's 12 short fights rather than a 36 minute fight we're judging but a deficit of 200 punches over 12 rounds is a hell of a lot any which way you swing it. You almost have to murder the man in any venue to get the nod.

Thought the Golovkin rematch should have taken place in Hamburg. I know Canelo technically fights on neutral ground but each bout has a million Mexicans baying for blood. He should go to Germany, Ukraine, Russia etc. to fight a live opponent.

[fidget]

Glad to see Canelo lose.