Boxing

[fidget]

Don't forget Lewis took on 35-0 Gary Mason in his 15th fight as the underdog. I got 6-5 for that

[Daniel 7]

Wonder what Gary Mason would have done in this era - he probably would have had a belt at some point wouldn't he?

[Angryred]

Poor guy got hit by a van whilst out cycling and died at the scene.

[Le Chef]

Looking forward to the Taylor Catterall rematch?

Going to this on Saturday - They ****ing hate each other - Hopefully a tear up

Under card seems a bit ****e

[fidget]

I had catterall on points last time lol
robbed of £510

undercard is indeed **** but that's standard unfortunately.
I'll only be tuning in for the main event.
Have a great time

[Zapater]

Usyk is a great fighter but it has to be noted that the best heavyweights are all dog****. Nothing anyone can tell me will convince me that Joshua, Chisora, Dubois or Fury are special in any which way. On paper these are fights Usyk should be winning. Wlad and Vitali were the last really good ones. Not sure if his achievements would've been as possible in other eras, although it's hard to tell. Either way it should come with an asterisk of sorts.

On Taylor, he's a bit of a pantomime villain, just a general annoying kind of dislikable individual. Good boxer but overrated (I said it on here when he was winning). Respect to him for taking a run of hard fights but he gets the gift decision every time. I have him losing a couple of others in addition to Catterall. Home town decision against Prograis without doubt.

Not sure about now because Zepeda had some hard fights but I think that Taylor would be made to order for him too, well a few years ago anyway. I feel sorry for Zepeda that he had to take title fights against Prograis and Ramirez who were all wrong for him stylistically.

[fidget]

Usyk is a great fighter but it has to be noted that the best heavyweights are all dog****.

That's a given

[Doc_Piptorious]

Usyk is a great fighter but it has to be noted that the best heavyweights are all dog****. Nothing anyone can tell me will convince me that Joshua, Chisora, Dubois or Fury are special in any which way. On paper these are fights Usyk should be winning. Wlad and Vitali were the last really good ones. Not sure if his achievements would've been as possible in other eras, although it's hard to tell. Either way it should come with an asterisk of sorts.

On Taylor, he's a bit of a pantomime villain, just a general annoying kind of dislikable individual. Good boxer but overrated (I said it on here when he was winning). Respect to him for taking a run of hard fights but he gets the gift decision every time. I have him losing a couple of others in addition to Catterall. Home town decision against Prograis without doubt.

Not sure about now because Zepeda had some hard fights but I think that Taylor would be made to order for him too, well a few years ago anyway. I feel sorry for Zepeda that he had to take title fights against Prograis and Ramirez who were all wrong for him stylistically.

Don't think anyone is going to try either

The best of the rest in this era all tend to have one thing in common. They are physically big.

Big, lumbering fighters that all get lauded as being "top class" because they stop other boxers that are also big but a bit slower.

If one of them can do the basic fundementals of boxing to a passable level then suddenly they are the second coming of Ali and get called skillful.



Totally agree on having doubts on what Usyk might have done in other eras.


As said in the other post, I think Lennox Lewis or Vitali would have stopped him in pretty brutal fashion.

Think guys like Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer and a number of others would stop him too.


Would even fancy a lot of the filler of the 1990s era to have a 50/50 chance of stopping him. Donovan Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, Tony Tucker and the like.

A lot of the heavyweights in the 1990s, even those we called **** back then (how little did we know what was to follow decades later) all tended to have the ability to fight at a higher tempo than most of those from today and a greater % of them were capable of more explosive or dynamic body movements for prolonged periods.


Often bemuses me that now we have better training equipment, more nuanced use of sports psychology, better diets, superior knowledge of
physiology and so on, yet the bigger fighters of today tend to move and look like the club fighters of 30, 40 and 50 years ago.


Usyk is a little bit of a throwback imo as he tries to fight like a much lighter man than he is, and he looks to maximize things like stamina and endurance.

Still does not make him a match for the best of the 1990s imo but makes him stand out like an uber skilled heavyweight in the current era which, by comparison to his peers, is what he is.


Do think that another issue in the modern heavyweight game is the coaching. You look at a lot of the camps and there are just too many loud voices involved. Too many opinions and often a fighter that decides he knows more than the head coach or that enables others to over rule the head coach on certain things.

Also think that there are a lot of coaches that fall under the same banner as ex footballers getting manager jobs simply because they were a decent player.

A lot of boxing coaches, the new generation, are becoming coaches before they become highly qualified. By that I mean they will get the minimum qualifications needed and then try to learn on the job. Or worse they come in as an ex boxer and get by on their name from being in the ring.


Quite a few laptop coaches in boxing too as well these days. That cannot tailor training camps to get the best out of individual fighters and instead rely on a one size fits all style of coaching. Leading to fighters being coached by what a training manual might say and the training not adapting to that fighter's skill set and physical needs.


Compare it to say modern rugby coaching and it is miles behind.


Bit of a tangent there but you have also worn gloves in the past so would have some knowledge of behind the scenes regarldess of level.

[Zapater]

I'd argue that there are many in the media and some boxing people who have deluded themselves and consider Fury an all time great. I've heard so many comparisons to Ali and other names from the past. I genuinely can't believe it and thought it was to promote fights but it seems there are people that actually think as much.

Also not at all knocking Usyk, I've been his number one advocate for years. If you dig through these pages you would see me saying that, along with the Taylor stuff I would still put the Gassiev win above this one. Going into the lions den in Moscow and beating an undefeated and dangerous fighter to take the belts and progress in the tournament. Wow.

A lot of the heavyweights in the 1990s, even those we called **** back then (how little did we know what was to follow decades later) all tended to have the ability to fight at a higher tempo than most of those from today and a greater % of them were capable of more explosive or dynamic body movements for prolonged periods.

Well, this has been a common trend throughout the history of the sport, particularly in the heavyweight division. I'll try to dig up the clip of a Dempsey interview, where they're saying the heavyweight division was **** because he suspected that Liston took a dive against Ali.

It's the same how every generation thinks the next one is going to be the end of humanity. Gen X were reckless and took nothing seriously, Millenials were pussies and now, I don't know what the **** Gen Z are but clearly the earth somehow continues turning.

Here it is, talk about 'restoring' it then.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-o3VuZwsDE"]Jack Dempsey on Ali and Liston fight - YouTube[/ame]

but you have also worn gloves in the past so would have some knowledge of behind the scenes regarldess of level

Would never be so presumptuous to think I know too much, just a bit of a student of the history of the game. I've watched thousands of fights and still clearly don't know how to score one, that's for sure.

Like Roger Mayweather used to say, people don't know **** about boxing and I'll lump myself in that category.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'd argue that there are many in the media and some boxing people who have deluded themselves and consider Fury an all time great. I've heard so many comparisons to Ali and other names from the past. I genuinely can't believe it and thought it was to promote fights but it seems there are people that actually think as much.

Also not at all knocking Usyk, I've been his number one advocate for years. If you dig through these pages you would see me saying that, along with the Taylor stuff I would still put the Gassiev win above this one. Going into the lions den in Moscow and beating an undefeated and dangerous fighter to take the belts and progress in the tournament. Wow.

Oh was not suggesting you were knocking Usyk in the slightest and know you have talked him up many times over the years

Well, this has been a common trend throughout the history of the sport, particularly in the heavyweight division. I'll try to dig up the clip of a Dempsey interview, where they're saying the heavyweight division was **** because he suspected that Liston took a dive against Ali.

It's the same how every generation thinks the next one is going to be the end of humanity. Gen X were reckless and took nothing seriously, Millenials were pussies and now, I don't know what the **** Gen Z are but clearly the earth somehow continues turning.

Here it is, talk about 'restoring' it then.

Jack Dempsey on Ali and Liston fight - YouTube

There is some truth in that, but there is also a hell of a lot of truth that the current division is one of the worst in the last 50 or 60 years. The depth of quality is shockingly shallow and the technique required to get lauded is laughable at times.

I mean guys like Dubiois or Joyce not so long ago were being praised for the technical ability as much as their supposed power.


And look at the names that get put out as thing the best of the next generation. Fisher, Clarke, Anderson, Sanchez, Huni, and Adeleye to name six. I defy anyone to watch them on a semi regular basis and then come back and tell me what exactly scream sure thing about them

Even the likes of Moses Itauma I think is going to be prove to be a guy that gets a rocket strapped to him to push him into a paper title fight early to try and take Mike Tyson's record of what age he won a world title at. But think he is going to prove to be another heavyweight that gets praised to the heavens simply because he moves better than the slower big guys. Then again he will have names like the sox I named as his peers so I have little doubt that he will eventually get a world title belt.

Would never be so presumptuous to think I know too much, just a bit of a student of the history of the game. I've watched thousands of fights and still clearly don't know how to score one, that's for sure.

Like Roger Mayweather used to say, people don't know **** about boxing and I'll lump myself in that category.

Meh I shall disagree with you with regards to your knowledge of the sport. Whether it is from being in a ring or watching fights a lot over the years or simply digesting what you read, there is knowledge there. Nobody knows it all, but we all know enough to be able to discuss, debate and disagree on points.

You have the ability to see what you see and then call it as you saw it rather than go with a herd mentality.



Plus I need more folk like you, Fidget and others to post on here otherwise it just becomes Spud saying Fury is great and me saying he is not.

[Zapater]

Taylor will be feeling this. Jack can't miss with his jab. He's going to have a broken right hand because Taylor can't do anything but eat them. Should double and triple it all round.

Taylor's only 'success' has been through swarming but how much is really landing? Lead left hook he started throwing a couple times in the 5th was also handy but not enough

[Zapater]

Not sure what happened to Taylor's fundamentals. Walking straight in, no head movement or punch output in range.

[fidget]

Closer than the first but Catterall win. I made it 115-113 at worst.

[fidget]

Yes

[RichC]

Awkward fighter Catterall, right decision although didn’t have it by 6, probably a couple of rounds in it at most