The Rugby Thread

[Buzzo]

Surely bite marks are not proof. That would be like the Bundy trial. Must have found something conclusive on the tape? I didn't see notice the incident so hard to tell. After everything that went on in that game. Clearly or allegedly I would feel pretty hard done by to be the only one on both sides sanctioned.

Yeah I've no idea, the clip I have seen is almost impossible to see. But as you say given how much did go on within the game and was easy to see but this is the only citing it must be pretty clear.

[Buzzo]

I don’t think he should have released the statement. It’s not in the spirit of the game. The end result was one of the worst ever games of Rugby I’ve watched in a long time. It’s the closest I’ve seen Rugby get to football with the TMO.

He should have waited until the series was done if he wanted to make these points, and trusted his World Cup winning team in the second test.

And World Rugby should never have put Joncker in as TMO. This is the first time I’ve been all that interested in a Lions tour and so far it’s been fairly ****

[ame]https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1422309214765133827[/ame]

[Buzzo]

FWIW Gatland started the whole thing but the sideshow is in danger of dragging down the whole series.

If the third match is another boring controversial game then it would be safe to say the allure and spectacle of a Lions tour has taken a huge hit.

[Zapater]

I think the misunderstanding of what is going on post analysis is that the view from outside of South Africa is that we lost and now it's sour grapes. The team weren't happy with a few calls and now they're trying to retaliate to Gatland's antics by putting even more pressure on the team.

Meanwhile from a South African perspective, mine anyway this is far from in a vacuum. It is not isolated to this test or series at all. It's years and years of being casually ****ed over (possibly unconscious bias) and taking it with a smile. Not necessarily by officiating decisions just overall institutionally. I don't really need to repeat myself and I'm sure if you go back 3 years or so in this thread you'll find me making the same claims. So for some it feels like this was the straw that broke the camels back.

So yes, it did put pressure on the officials, riled up the Lions and took some of the spotlight off of the performances pre-match. In fairness Rassie did cite lack of feedback and delayed communication for putting the video out to the public. Obviously there's a place for everything, but if it's true and he used the appropriate channels and was fobbed off, then on top of years of perceived frustration one can understand why he chose this route.

I don't like the 'against the spirit of the game' stuff because for years and years coaches, particularly in control of northern hemisphere teams have made controversial statement after another and the journalists there haven't to my knowledge made such bold claims. Be it Clive Woodward, Gatland, Jones or whomever else I can't think of. Sure, this was more comprehensive but it's not like Rassie has a massive track record of this kind of thing. Not sure if he did something like this at Munster, but at home he's been very professional and respectful. Either way, it's in the book now, what's done is done. He'll probably get into **** and the governing bodies will throw the book at him because they don't like what he's saying. Therefore strengthening his initial point.

The fact we even have journalists fighting each other on Twitter is hilarious to me. This being my favourite exchange thus far.

[ame]https://twitter.com/stephenjones9/status/1421587670682198018[/ame]

[ame]https://twitter.com/MattP555/status/1421589180220682250[/ame]

Reminds me of Jacques Burger, who has always been a good egg chipping in too.

[ame]https://twitter.com/Nabasboer/status/700721405604843521[/ame]

[Buzzo]

I’ll agree mainstream Rugby press coverage up here is terrible. Outside of that there is good comment. Just listening to the Scottish Rugby Blog podcast now.

The ref lost control a bit of the game on Saturday, due in no small part to the pressure put on him by Rassies statement. He couldn’t really win. He had to bin someone early Mako had a ridiculous shot after about three minutes which was at least a yellow. If he’s given a card then it may have calmed the game down. I have some sympathy with what Rassie says, but it’s a road the game cannot afford to go down. Every single game ever is riddled with this. I’ve seen some shockers the 2015 1/4 final with the ref running off the pitch having given a ridiculous pen to Aus to win the game. At least you guys get to win World Cups.

I 100% agree that Garland, Jones and Woodward have been doing this also. I think the difference here is specifically that the teams play each other three times in a row. Talking out in such detail affected (spoiled) the game. It is also technically literally a law contravention. I think the media up here started it all with the Rassie water boy stuff and were prepared to ignore the fact that Neil Jenkins carries the tee on for Biggar and Farrell. Who cares!!!

Anyway, it’s all set for a final where the pressure on the ref will again be ridiculous. I really hope, that whoever wins it’s a good game - because the way it’s going is not amazing for the game.

[Buzzo]

Stephen Jones is a ****ing horrific Rugby Journo btw. So I’m all for him getting some stick!!! Stuart Barnes even worse.

[Zapater]

If the third match is another boring controversial game then it would be safe to say the allure and spectacle of a Lions tour has taken a huge hit.

I saw both Peter de Villiers and Ian Foster have echoed these sentiments. The approach being too cautious. Sadly, I would have been shocked if these games looked any other way from an aesthetic standpoint. We all know how Gatland's Wales teams played and we saw how this SA team played in the WC last time around. The semi in the WC was the dress rehearsal.

I'm critical of it because both teams could field much more exciting players and play a different brand without compromising effectiveness, although that's never going to happen, particularly when these coaches are playing against each other. Even though they were quite good, last week I was critical of de Allende and Am as a midfield, they were excellent this week and are really good at what they do. Maybe I'm a little old school and prefer my inside centre to play almost like a second 10 or should at least have some passing qualities and running good lines rather than playing like a mobile flanker in the backline.

[Buzzo]

I saw both Peter de Villiers and Ian Foster have echoed these sentiments. The approach being too cautious. Sadly, I would have been shocked if these games looked any other way from an aesthetic standpoint. We all know how Gatland's Wales teams played and we saw how this SA team played in the WC last time around. The semi in the WC was the dress rehearsal.

I'm critical of it because both teams could field much more exciting players and play a different brand without compromising effectiveness, although that's never going to happen, particularly when these coaches are playing against each other. Even though they were quite good, last week I was critical of de Allende and Am as a midfield, they were excellent this week and are really good at what they do. Maybe I'm a little old school and prefer my inside centre to play almost like a second 10 or should at least have some passing qualities and running good lines rather than playing like a mobile flanker in the backline.

100% agree this attritional style of Rugby is not for me. Apparently Biggar only passed the ball three times all game That’s your playmaker playing kick chase percentage rugby in the ‘showpiece’ game.

[Zapater]

100% agree this attritional style of Rugby is not for me. Apparently Biggar only passed the ball three times all game That’s your playmaker playing kick chase percentage rugby in the ‘showpiece’ game.

For me that's more annoying from an overall game perspective. When Meyer and Coetzee were in charge trying to play even worse rugby than this and the All Blacks were running rings around us, all the talk was about wrong coaching structures and mentality. This management team has turned it around and made it effective. I enjoy the winning, but it's hard to take when it goes wrong. So much emphasis on skills training at all levels of the game, for the highest level to produce this...

[Zapater]

If Cormack is still alive, hopefully he'll show up sooner or later to give us his purist take on the stylistic on-field developments.

[Buzzo]

Imagine that was the first game of Rugby you ever watched

From the exhilarating remarkable match between Quins and Exeter in the prem final to this!

I also agree there is almost zero chance of a decent game on Sat, and I can’t see anything other than a Boks win. You could argue you were unlucky to lose the first test. The Lions have only won one half out of 4. 2 to SA, one just so abysmal there can be no winners.

[Buzzo]

If Cormack is still alive, hopefully he'll show up sooner or later to give us his purist take on the stylistic on-field developments.

Would love his comments. Easily the most reasonable fair and balanced England supporter I’ve ever chatted to.

[ntto]

well thats some surprise Gats has pulled for selection.

[RichC]

Hard to argue against any of the 7 dropped from the 23.

I'd say Van der Merwe is lucky to keep his starting spot as well but he does offer some physicality.

[Irishnev]

SOUTH AFRICA v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836

13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824

12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837

11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841

10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842

2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829

3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825

5. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761

6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853

8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851

17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787

18. *Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814 – subject to outcome of disciplinary hearing.

19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852

20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849

21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland) #835

23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822