Andy Carroll - Best Striker in the World

[James P]

Come back James P.

You'll regret saying that.

Without amortising and P&I...zzzz

Just forget he has ever played for us for a brief second. Today is the day we bought Andy Carroll. We payed 35m. Ok so a minute later we are now in the present.
We had a pot with 35m in it, it's now empty, after we sell him to West Ham how much dough is in the pot?

Irrelevant folding of the space time continuum aside, that still isn't correct. The fact is that we bought him, treated his contract as an asset, amortised it, and then disposed of it at a relatively small accounting loss nearly two and a half years later. Had we sold him on at £40m, the profit would have been nearly £20m, not £5m, as the principle works both ways. Whether you like it or not, that's the way that it works from an accounting perspective.

I wouldn't for a moment suggest he was anything more than pretty crap for us and that £35m seems ridiculous compared to deals like, for instance, the one that got us Suárez. It adds nothing though to talk about the money spent (or wasted) in any detail if we don't know how accounting works.

It's the fallacy of detail really; it's used to bolster an argument that he was a bad buy and a poor player. Well, ok, but no one here really disagrees with that. So let's just say that and not get into speculation about how the club's accountants will choose to calculate the loss and offset it against tax liabilities or whatever.

Or if we have to then let's not just ignore what someone who does know what they're talking about because it doesn't fit our simplistic - and simply wrong - notions of accounting. Especially when it changes nothing of substance in the original contention which is that Carroll was not worth the money we paid and have lost, however much that might be.

I agree. As you say, it's all smoke and mirrors. We paid way too much for him, and are now getting his real value back. Equally, we made a massive profit on Torres (probably circa £40m) because he sold for way more than we paid and we will have amortised his original value down to a few million. In the grand scheme of things, I'm probably more pissed off at Joe Cole taking a huge salary for being **** for several years, or at Aquilani effectively refusing to serve out his contract and forcing a move for no money, than I am at Carroll for not being good enough but accepting being moved on.

[Fivex]

I'd just like to clarify that I'm not a charcoaled accountant either.

[kingfunk]

[Norbs]

I agree with Bob.

He's worth around £20m. Just be thankful he's not a **** who will be happy to sit on their arse for the full duration of the contract and leave for nothing.

And looks like we'll lose £20m. How much did Chelsea lose on Shevchenko? The full fee. Carroll may have been the stupidest purchase, but he's not the worst.

We know what type if player he is. Of those types, he's probably the best around, with plenty of time to improve other aspects of his game. He'll never fit our style so needs to go, but under other managers, in other systems, he could do really well - especially if he finally sorts out his fitness.

I guarantee that once we sell him he'll stay injury free and look an absolute monster of a player. But all things considered, we are bang right to sell him whilst we can still get a decent wedge.

That's what makes it the worst transfer in recent times. We knew exactly what sort of player he was, ie suited to a mid table scrapping team, and there wasn't a hope in hell that he'd ever fit Liverpool. It was bonkers to sign him, regardless of the fee and it went against the Liverpool way, IMO.

[Neil Young]

You'll regret saying that.

I already do.

Irrelevant folding of the space time continuum aside, that still isn't correct. The fact is that we bought him, treated his contract as an asset, amortised it, and then disposed of it at a relatively small accounting loss nearly two and a half years later. Had we sold him on at £40m, the profit would have been nearly £20m, not £5m, as the principle works both ways. Whether you like it or not, that's the way that it works from an accounting perspective.

I agree. As you say, it's all smoke and mirrors. We paid way too much for him, and are now getting his real value back. Equally, we made a massive profit on Torres (probably circa £40m) because he sold for way more than we paid and we will have amortised his original value down to a few million. In the grand scheme of things, I'm probably more pissed off at Joe Cole taking a huge salary for being **** for several years, or at Aquilani effectively refusing to serve out his contract and forcing a move for no money, than I am at Carroll for not being good enough but accepting being moved on.

That's a good point that his real value is about what West Ham are willing to pay. Although I suppose they'd pay us a bit less than value because we're a bigger club and there's always a premium for that it seems. Also he's failed for us so that knocks a bit off too.

Either way [Matt] it shows he's worth more than £5m.

I'd just like to clarify that I'm not a charcoaled accountant either.

[Chazza]

Andy Carroll stalls on £15m move to West Ham in hope Newcastle step in
Unwanted at Liverpool, the England striker would take a pay cut to rejoin his boyhood club

Andy Carroll was tonight stalling on a move to West Ham after a £15m fee was agreed with Liverpool, in the hope that Newcastle United enter the race for his signature.

The England forward has again been told he will not have a future at Anfield, despite having three years left on the contract he signed when he moved from Newcastle for £35m in 2011.

Carroll scored seven goals during his season-long loan spell at Upton Park, and proved an important part of Sam Allardyce's side, who gained a top 10 finish in their first season back in the Premier League.

However, the 24-year-old Geordie is still keen on an emotional return to his hometown club and is believed to be holding tight in case they make a move.

The Newcastle manager, Alan Pardew, admitted recently Carroll is a player he would love to take back to St James' Park and the club are in the market to buy two forwards after a disappointing season that ended with them fifth-bottom of the table.

Newcastle know they hold a strong position, with the player keen to return and they are also aware of Liverpool's desire to get a sale pushed through quickly in order to strengthen their summer spending plans significantly.

Carroll is on around £90,000 a week at Liverpool; that salary is way beyond Newcastle's budget, although not out of West Ham's salary structure. However, the player's desire to return to the North-east is such that he has intimated to friends he would take a pay cut to become a Newcastle player once more next season.

West Ham's bold move has put the onus back on Newcastle, but they will not be forced into a bidding war, despite a desire to sign the player.

Carroll was desperate to be given a chance by the Liverpool manager, Brendan Rodgers, last summer to show he could emerge as the player the Anfield club thought they had signed when they paid their record-breaking £35m fee for an English player in the January transfer window of 2011.

Rodgers, though, would not even speak to him and instead a season-long loan was agreed with West Ham. Carroll started his West Ham career well but was again dogged by injuries before putting together a run of games and ending with seven goals from 23 Premier League games. Allardyce is eager to keep the player at West Ham but the decision is now in Carroll's hands as he waits to see if Newcastle show their hand.

The forward is likely to be unfit for at least another six weeks after picking up a heel injury that will curtail his international progress.

The nine-times capped Carroll was included in Roy Hodgson's England squad for the forthcoming friendlies with the Republic of Ireland and Brazil, but pulled out and will miss another opportunity to stake his claim to be involved in the World Cup qualifiers against Moldova and Ukraine in September.

The form shown by the powerful striker at the end of the season to catch Hodgson's eye was the nearest he has come to replicating the form that persuaded Liverpool to pay so much for his services in the first place.

At the start of the 2011-12 season Carroll had scored nine Premier League goals by November, but he was injured before the shock move to Anfield and never truly found his best form on Merseyside.

There was a desire from Carroll to show his true ability at Anfield but that seems highly unlikely to happen under Rodgers. That the agreement of a fee is now known is a further indication of Liverpool's desire to offload the player.

Meanwhile, the former England striker Carlton Cole looks set to leave West Ham after saying his goodbyes to fans on Twitter.

"Life is filled with ups & downs today is a down but i'll be back! Carlton Cole/CFC as i have been called has left the building #UNDERCHUFFED," tweeted the 29-year-old, who began his career at Chelsea before moving to Upton Park in 2006.

West Ham also confirmed the signing of the Romanian captain and left-back Razvan Rat on a one-year deal. The 31-year-old has spent the past decade with Shakhtar Donetsk, winning seven Ukrainian Premier League titles and making 248 appearances.

"I'm hugely happy that we've got a player of his experience and his character," said Allardyce. "He's been playing Champions League football this year and at the highest level for many years. Shakhtar had offered him a very good contract, but his ambition was to come and try his abilities and skills in England."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/andy-carroll-stalls-on-15m-move-to-west-ham-in-hope-newcastle-step-in-8626270.html

[spider-neil]

90...thousand...pounds....a week.

35m and 90K a week for an unproven, half a season in the prem, 22 year old.
Kenny, I love you but ****ing hell.

[dww]

Andy Carroll could be out until August with heel injury
[BBC]

Striker Andy Carroll could be out until the start of the new season with the heel injury that forced him out of England's two post-season friendlies.
The 24-year-old, who spent last season on loan at West Ham from Liverpool, fell awkwardly in the Hammers' final game of the season.
Although no surgery is required Carroll could be out for at least three months.
It is understood the injury will not jeopardise Carroll's proposed move from Liverpool to West Ham.
The clubs agreed a fee in the region of £15m, but the Hammers' top scorer has yet to decide whether he wants to join the east London club on a permanent basis.
Carroll was signed by Kenny Dalglish from Newcastle and moved to Liverpool on transfer deadline day in January 2011, for what remains a record fee for a British player of £35m.
The centre forward joins Liverpool's Steven Gerrard and Arsenal's Jack Wilshere on the sidelines for England's matches against the Republic of Ireland on 29 May and Brazil in Rio de Janeiro on 2 June.

[Yozza]

Rodgers reveals Carroll talks
23rd May 2013 - Latest News

Brendan Rodgers anticipates that Andy Carroll's future to be resolved quickly after staging talks with the striker to assess his loan spell at West Ham.

The striker scored seven goals in 24 league appearances for Sam Allardyce's men during a season-long loan.

Rodgers told the media: "I spoke to him and we had a good chat. The boy is a talent (Not an edit!). It's just something we need to assess between now and the end of the window.

"It was just a general conversation in terms of the experience of getting out and playing. He enjoyed that apart from the injury.

"At the start of the season the whole thing was about going and getting games because he wasn't going to be a starter here.

"We will talk again with him and the club to see how it all evolves. It's one of those situations where it will probably be resolved a lot quicker than that for both parties.

"The objective at the beginning of the season was for him to go out and play. He's gone away to think of what we spoke about."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/rodgers-reveals-carroll-talks

[Sarb]

Annoying that Newcastle are just playing us. Hope we don't sell him to Newcastle. I read somewhere that they want to pay only £7m for him. They tried the same thing with his loan deal. Would love us to offload him somewhere else

[baitman]

Annoying that Newcastle are just playing us. Hope we don't sell him to Newcastle. I read somewhere that they want to pay only £7m for him. They tried the same thing with his loan deal. Would love us to offload him somewhere else

its a fair bet that andy would prefer to return to newcastle as he knows where all the best bars and clubs are. a big fish in a small pond.
if he refuses to sign for west ham then that puts him and newcastle in a stronger position. if we want shut then it will be on their terms and not ours

[spider-neil]

its a fair bet that andy would prefer to return to newcastle as he knows where all the best bars and clubs are. a big fish in a small pond.
if he refuses to sign for west ham then that puts him and newcastle in a stronger position. if we want shut then it will be on their terms and not ours

We should then just call his bluff and say do you want to be a sub in World Cup year?

[Chazza]

Brendan Rodgers anticipates that Andy Carroll's future will be resolved quickly after staging talks with the striker to assess his loan spell at West Ham.

The striker scored seven goals in 24 league appearances for Sam Allardyce's men during a season-long loan.

Rodgers told the media: "I spoke to him and we had a good chat. The boy is a talent. It's just something we need to assess between now and the end of the window.

"It was just a general conversation in terms of the experience of getting out and playing. He enjoyed that apart from the injury.

"At the start of the season the whole thing was about going and getting games because he wasn't going to be a starter here.

"We will talk again with him and the club to see how it all evolves. It's one of those situations where it will probably be resolved a lot quicker than that for both parties.

"The objective at the beginning of the season was for him to go out and play. He's gone away to think of what we spoke about."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/rodgers-reveals-carroll-talks

[peekay]

Rodgers reveals Carroll talks
23rd May 2013 - Latest News

Brendan Rodgers anticipates that Andy Carroll's future to be resolved quickly after staging talks with the striker to assess his loan spell at West Ham.

The striker scored seven goals in 24 league appearances for Sam Allardyce's men during a season-long loan.

Rodgers told the media: "I spoke to him and we had a good chat. The boy is a talent (Not an edit!). It's just something we need to assess between now and the end of the window.

"It was just a general conversation in terms of the experience of getting out and playing. He enjoyed that apart from the injury.

"At the start of the season the whole thing was about going and getting games because he wasn't going to be a starter here.

"We will talk again with him and the club to see how it all evolves. It's one of those situations where it will probably be resolved a lot quicker than that for both parties.

"The objective at the beginning of the season was for him to go out and play. He's gone away to think of what we spoke about."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/late...-carroll-talks

Brendan must be having some really deep and involved conversations with his players if they really need to go away and think about the conversation. I am assuming the message was simple in Carroll's case.

[baitman]

Brendan must be having some really deep and involved conversations with his players if they really need to go away and think about the conversation. I am assuming the message was simple in Carroll's case.

brendan spoke a little, andy said 'aye gaffa'
brendan spoke some more, andy said 'aye gaffa'
brandan asked if he understood what he meant, andy said 'whorr, not really, like'
brendan said he would make it like a story and write it down in crayon and send it to kevin nolan to read to him.