Racism in Football

[Tee]

and so will the shirt sponsors.

Its a win win situation.

Unless of course he is ****.

[TheElephantMan]

The whole racism debate is so ****ed up. If the pampered millionaires are so upset then perhaps they should explain why some people are coconuts or choc ices or whatever stupid terms the guardians of racism use to intimidate other people of colour. Racism in premiership football is ridiculous - it's unacceptable, of course it is, but in the scheme of things it's laughable. The incidents during the last 12 months have very little to do with racism, much more to do with point scoring between self important organisations which claim to represent people. I can't stand these organisations and to be honest most footballers in the Premiership are more detached from reality than the Tories.

[BillobShaisley]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks. I have no issue at all with a black person getting an interview if they are a viable candidate. I've said that in almost every post, so I'm not quite sure how you've come to that conclusion. Maybe you were in such a rush to disagree that you didn't read my posts properly. The whole point of the 3rd item on that list is to ensure there is a black person interviewed - irelevant of whether there are better suited candidates. At that point, that person becomes a token. Personally I think that's degrading, and makes a sham of equality.

Why would having one out of 6-10 interviewees coming from a minority background have to constitute tokenism? I am working on the assumption that there are viable black candidates out there, you appear to be working on the assumption that there are not.

[BillobShaisley]

Not really, and nor is that my responsibility. I'm still entitled to my view on the 'solution' that's been presented by the PFA.

Or should I not be allowed to disagree unless I have the answer to the problem? Am I allowed to be concerned about climate change?

I think if you can see that something is ****ed right up, then you should do the best option on the table to address it rather than wait for perfection.

To use your analogy, its like being concerned about climate change but not doing anything at all until cold fussion and hydrogen storage are masterd because anything else is imperfect and has some theoretical potential drawbacks.

[BillobShaisley]

Seriously, wtf are you on about?

In your view of the most suitable candidates being interviewed and getting posts on a merit basis. How do you explain Roy Hodgson? There's clearly some very imperfect evaluation of CV's, Performances and Qualities at the highest levels as well as lower down. The current situation throws up more meritocracy questions than forcing a representative percentage of minority groups to be considered for a post, before giving the job to the nice white fella anyway.

[BillobShaisley]

You talk about these places as though they don't have to make ends meet. They have bills to pay, just like LFC do. It's probably harder for them if anything. They want the best man for the job - I'm sure they wouldn't give a flying **** if that person was purple with pink stripes if he got them promotion.

Are you saying that having to add an extra interview in the months long process of signing a new manager would drive them to bankruptcy and ruin?

[Alex]

Jobs in football are mainly given based on Reputation no?

[kris90210]

Why would having one out of 6-10 interviewees coming from a minority background have to constitute tokenism? I am working on the assumption that there are viable black candidates out there, you appear to be working on the assumption that there are not.

That's not the point of the Rooney Rule. Let's say 10 people are to be interviewed for some coaching position. So the 10 most impressive candidates are selected for interview. Oh ****, we don't have a black candidate. Right, drop the weakest of the 10 and replace him. That is discrimination against the person who is dropped based on skin colour and it's wrong.

If those 10 people who are interviewed are all black - great. Fantastic. So long as they're the best candidates for the job!

[kris90210]

I think if you can see that something is ****ed right up, then you should do the best option on the table to address it rather than wait for perfection.

To use your analogy, its like being concerned about climate change but not doing anything at all until cold fussion and hydrogen storage are masterd because anything else is imperfect and has some theoretical potential drawbacks.

I agree something needs to be done, but it's not my job to come up with the solution. Just like the climate change issues going on. What, you want me to cure the worlds problems before I can have an opinion on this? Behave.

The end goal is equality. And you're saying the solution is positive discrimination. Sorry, but to me that's not right. There's no such thing as 'positive' discrimination? How can there be? Discrimination is wrong, full stop.

[Alex]

Or...we have 10 candidates, why don't we keep that 10 and add one from a minority background for an interview.

[kris90210]

In your view of the most suitable candidates being interviewed and getting posts on a merit basis. How do you explain Roy Hodgson? There's clearly some very imperfect evaluation of CV's, Performances and Qualities at the highest levels as well as lower down. The current situation throws up more meritocracy questions than forcing a representative percentage of minority groups to be considered for a post, before giving the job to the nice white fella anyway.

Ultimately, it's a judgement call that is made by the club who employs him isn't it. They're the ones who face the consequences of his employment, so that's only right.

None of us like Roy Hodgson, but he has established himself as a decent premiership level manager.

[kris90210]

Or...we have 10 candidates, why don't we keep that 10 and add one from a minority background for an interview.

Ok, so then we add 1 for an asian candidate. 1 for a jewish candidate. Why aren't women considered? Where does it stop?

[kris90210]

Are you saying that having to add an extra interview in the months long process of signing a new manager would drive them to bankruptcy and ruin?

As I've subsequently written to Alex, where does it stop?

I disagree with this as a matter of principle. If they up the interview number to 11, the 11th person should be the next most outstanding candidiate, regardless of skin colour.

[Alex]

I said minority background. I didn't specify which.

I don't think you get the idea behind the Rule. It is about providing a pathway to a job. If someone knows they have a chance of an interview, they might be more inclined to get into coaching. Which in turn creates greater numbers of Black/Asian/Female or whoever else into the game. I think you are only thinking about the top managerial roles. Which isn't really the idea behind it. Granted it applies to the top jobs directly.

[CJ]

Kris

so you think that the current system works? why is it that we have an over whelming number of white managers and coaches in this country?

do you not think its possible or even likely that descrimination plays a part in the shortlisting process even at a subconcious level