Racism in Football

[dww]

If there was an incentive for a black manager to get interviews, there would be more incentive to become a manager in the first place. Does it not seem odd that in the whole football league there is 1 or 2 black managers. That's hardly representative of society is it?

Nor, perhaps more pertinently, the base of people involved in all levels of football. The one thing is does seem to reflect is the number of black members of football club boards.

[Tee]

If there was an incentive for a black manager to get interviews, there would be more incentive to become a manager in the first place. Does it not seem odd that in the whole football league there is 1 or 2 black managers. That's hardly representative of society is it?

Aspiring Managers who are not white need to see that there will be opportunities for them and that they will be considered seriously for any vacancies. Unfortunately it seems like that is not the case, so I think many do not see Management as a serious career option and end up in media and other business interests outside football.

[kris90210]

I tend to fnd most of the people worried about positive descrimination are the ones worried about having to compete fairly against poeple they've traditionaly been given an unfair advantage over.

Many things have resonance, or spiral, in that an early descepancy then influences every stage of the future. So first that black players are only good athletes and couldn't coach, then that they might be ok as a coach but dont have the skills to be managers etc etc etc. It becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.

Did we have to adopt a similar policy to introduce black players into football teams for us to get to where we are today? Of course not. What you're suggesting is not the only way.

It is only when a huge effort is put into to overcome the inertia or momentum that things can then quite quickly start to find their natural balance. It's interesting that you assume all these potential balck interviewees are only tokens. They couldn't possibly be a representative number of actual viable candidates for the post, could there?

Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks. I have no issue at all with a black person getting an interview if they are a viable candidate. I've said that in almost every post, so I'm not quite sure how you've come to that conclusion. Maybe you were in such a rush to disagree that you didn't read my posts properly. The whole point of the 3rd item on that list is to ensure there is a black person interviewed - irelevant of whether there are better suited candidates. At that point, that person becomes a token. Personally I think that's degrading, and makes a sham of equality.

[kris90210]

Any suggestions about what the way is? Or about what we do while we wait for a better way to be identified?

Not really, and nor is that my responsibility. I'm still entitled to my view on the 'solution' that's been presented by the PFA.

Or should I not be allowed to disagree unless I have the answer to the problem? Am I allowed to be concerned about climate change?

[kris90210]

How do you explain Roy Hodgson?

Seriously, wtf are you on about?

[kris90210]

How outstanding should you have to be to get an interview for a job managing Hereford or Ipswich? If you have all your badges, how do you prove your worth unless you get a role and how do you get a role withou an interview?

You talk about these places as though they don't have to make ends meet. They have bills to pay, just like LFC do. It's probably harder for them if anything. They want the best man for the job - I'm sure they wouldn't give a flying **** if that person was purple with pink stripes if he got them promotion.

[Kenneth]

You talk about these places as though they don't have to make ends meet. They have bills to pay, just like LFC do. It's probably harder for them if anything. They want the best man for the job - I'm sure they wouldn't give a flying **** if that person was purple with pink stripes if he got them promotion.

Those guys do have a very effective union though.

[kris90210]

If there was an incentive for a black manager to get interviews, there would be more incentive to become a manager in the first place. Does it not seem odd that in the whole football league there is 1 or 2 black managers. That's hardly representative of society is it?

At one point last season there were 7 premiership managers all from around Glasgow. That's hardly representative of society either.

In order to properly judge why these figures are skewed, you'd have to look at a whole host of factors. I do agree that it is strange. But I just can't believe that it's purely down to ingrained racism.

[Reece]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/9631854/Rio-and-Anton-Ferdinand-issue-statement-expressing-disappointment-with-the-Football-Association-and-PFA.html

In a wide-ranging statement released on Wednesday evening by the Ferdinand's management team, New Era Global Sports, the pair have expressed their desire to "work with football's existing organisations towards the betterment of the game and to achieve immediate action".
In addition, they have claimed the Kick it Out organisation, whilst doing good work in the past, needs to change and have offered to work with it to make it "more relevant in its fight to stamp out racism in football".
"It has been a year since the incident at Loftus Road," read the statement.
"During that time, some of the deep divisions that exist in football have been exposed.
"In the coming months there will be ongoing discussions, we are sure, on finding a way forward. We intend to participate in these discussions, along with numerous other current and ex professionals of all races, from the grass roots upwards, across the football community as a whole."

The statement continued: "On the issue of Kick it Out, we would like to go on record to say what fantastic work they have done in the past regarding education and awareness.
"However, times change and organisations need to change with them. We are more than happy to join the discussion, privately, to make Kick it Out more relevant in its fight to stamp out racism in football.
"Although we have been left disappointed by the PFA and the FA's actions over the last year, as a family, we are committed to working with football's existing organisations towards the betterment of the game and to achieve immediate action.
"We would like to thank all the fans and the staff at Queen's Park Rangers and Manchester United for their support in what has been a difficult year. In particular we want to thank Sir Alex Ferguson and Mark Hughes.
"We will not be discussing publicly any issues connected with the case. We are now going to concentrate on playing football."

[Alex]

At one point last season there were 7 premiership managers all from around Glasgow. That's hardly representative of society either.

In order to properly judge why these figures are skewed, you'd have to look at a whole host of factors. I do agree that it is strange. But I just can't believe that it's purely down to ingrained racism.

Nobody is arguing for them getting the jobs. Just getting a fair crack at them.

[kris90210]

Nobody is arguing for them getting the jobs. Just getting a fair crack at them.

Giving someone an interview just because of his skin colour does not constitute a fair crack. It works both ways.

[Kenneth]

Its a tricky one. The person who possibly didn't get an interview that they would have on merit because he is white doesn't get a fair crack and is gwnuinely discriminates on grounds of race, but then the current process doesn't appear to be giving everyone of all races a fair crack as it is. Overall I can't say I'm comfortable with embedding it as a rule.

[Ben_Itez]

Im undecided on the 'Rooney' rule.

However, without knowing the exact figures isn't one of the problems that very few black/asian/minority players go on to take their coaching badges? Finding out the reason for this may help in determining the way forward on this issue. Is it simply that they don't see the point as they're pessimistic about their job chances after or is it something else?

The thing i find the most flabbergasting is the lack of British asian players playing professionally. The program presented by Clark Carlisle, Is Football Racist? (i think it was called) looked at this and i found it very interesting. Very few Asian players got trials at clubs even if they'd represented their county at all age levels whilst a disproportionate amount of black players got trials and went on to become professionals.

Scouts/clubs/coaches were accused of thinking that asian players were too physically weak whilst at the same time being swayed by black players' impressive physicality at a young age. Leading to a disproportionate amount of black players at a young age.

Surely scouts/coaches etc are beginning to realise that size isnt everything these days (even in the British game and having to play on a wet Wednesday at Stoke!). All the best players in the world are midgets!

Interestingly there's a case for age discrimination too, cant be arsed to look up the figures but a high majority of professional players are born between Sept and January which kind of supports the theory that bigger players are often picked at a young age and get preferential; treatment from scouts, clubs and coaches.

If you're Asian, brilliant at football but born in August and fairly small in comparison to your peers you have hardly got a chance of making it, best player in your team/school/town or not

[Tee]

Im undecided on the 'Rooney' rule.

However, without knowing the exact figures isn't one of the problems that very few black/asian/minority players go on to take their coaching badges? Finding out the reason for this may help in determining the way forward on this issue. Is it simply that they don't see the point as they're pessimistic about their job chances after or is it something else?

The thing i find the most flabbergasting is the lack of British asian players playing professionally. The program presented by Clark Carlisle, Is Football Racist? (i think it was called) looked at this and i found it very interesting. Very few Asian players got trials at clubs even if they'd represented their county at all age levels whilst a disproportionate amount of black players got trials and went on to become professionals.

Scouts/clubs/coaches were accused of thinking that asian players were too physically weak whilst at the same time being swayed by black players' impressive physicality at a young age. Leading to a disproportionate amount of black players at a young age.

Surely scouts/coaches etc are beginning to realise that size isnt everything these days (even in the British game and having to play on a wet Wednesday at Stoke!). All the best players in the world are midgets!

Interestingly there's a case for age discrimination too, cant be arsed to look up the figures but a high majority of professional players are born between Sept and January which kind of supports the theory that bigger players are often picked at a young age and get preferential; treatment from scouts, clubs and coaches.

If you're Asian, brilliant at football but born in August and fairly small in comparison to your peers you have hardly got a chance of making it, best player in your team/school/town or not

That was me!!! Maybe not brilliant but when I was a kid I always held my own. And always overlooked by Mr Woods my PE teacher, until one games session during my last year at school he had to ref our game (all the non school team players).

He came up to me at the end and said "how come I have not seen you play before, you should be playing with the main team". I told him he was never interested and he laughed and just mumbled some ****. Told me to come on Saturday and I would be a sub for the match, but I never went. Too late and I was gutted.

I hope that attitudes towards Asian players are changing at grass roots level. There is some serious talent on a technical level that needs to be nurtured and potential realised. The day an Asian player plays for Liverpool, I will be crying tears of joy.

[baitman]

...The day an Asian player plays for Liverpool, I will be crying tears of joy.

and so will the shirt sponsors.