Henrikh Mkhitaryan

[Mostar]

The club have been losing money every year since the club was bought and the owners have to put a stop to it, it can't continue and we'd struggle to meet FFP or at least would have as of last year. That's the reason for the wage cuts we've seen, this £20m budget is pure fantasy made up in the media and its stuck.

I disagree.

Warrior deal brought in £25m, Standard Chartered £20m (+ numerous little sponsorship deals) and TV rights more than £40m and that is without any other sources of revenue.

If only fraction of those guaranteed earnings are set aside for our summer budget it should be at least £20m.

[Muddled]

I think we can safely say we've spend more than £3m, I'd expect more still to come but the books need balancing look at last years we lost £50m or something a long those lines.

EDIT: Wrong end of stick

We have a net spend of £3m in the transfer market. Talking headline figures, obv.
I'm of the opinion that we didn't need to sell Suarez to fund the purchase of Mkhitaryan, was my point.
I haven't taken into account agent fees, wining and ding Chief Executives and the cost of taxes on the flights to negotiate the deal (or lack thereof).

[BrooklynRed]

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

I disagree.

Warrior deal brought in £25m, Standard Chartered £20m (+ numerous little sponsorship deals) and TV rights more than £40m and that is without any other sources of revenue.

If only fraction of those guaranteed earnings are set aside for our summer budget it should be at least £20m.

But why should the extra income go towards transfers? In an ideal world where the club is stable and not showing quite hefty losses for the past 2/3 years then I'd agree. But right now we're still recovering, there is definite progress but its very important we get on track financially because based on what been said about H&G's time at the club we were on the brink.

We've also got the stadium expansion which will no doubt be taking up a lot of money, probably dwarfing that of the extra income we're seeing.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

EDIT: Wrong end of stick

We have a net spend of £3m in the transfer market. Talking headline figures, obv.
I'm of the opinion that we didn't need to sell Suarez to fund the purchase of Mkhitaryan, was my point.
I haven't taken into account agent fees, wining and ding Chief Executives and the cost of taxes on the flights to negotiate the deal (or lack thereof).

Fair enough mate I just find it frustrating when sometimes people use the most basic net figure as a stick to beat the club with, which I'm not saying you were doing by the way.

The more deals we do, which looks like it could be a lot this year, the more agents we pay and all of that stuff. I'm not saying its impossible but I find it unlikely we'll have that basic view of net spend being £20m-£25m.

[BrooklynRed]

Fair enough mate I just find it frustrating when sometimes people use the most basic net figure as a stick to beat the club with, which I'm not saying you were doing by the way.

The more deals we do, which looks like it could be a lot this year, the more agents we pay and all of that stuff. I'm not saying its impossible but I find it unlikely we'll have that basic view of net spend being £20m-£25m.

What is the revenue bonus for CL football? Would you spend more to achieve that marker? Because our rivals are. It is the bottom line; to compete for revenue, we have to spend. Responsibly, but it is clear we are not a top 4 side without getting in depth and players on the level of the actual top 4 teams. I am not saying spend like City or Chelsea, but the team needs strengthening and we cannot gut the side to make it better. In today's market, a difference maker at £25M is not that much, I hate to say.

[Mostar]

But why should the extra income go towards transfers? In an ideal world where the club is stable and not showing quite hefty losses for the past 2/3 years then I'd agree. But right now we're still recovering, there is definite progress but its very important we get on track financially because based on what been said about H&G's time at the club we were on the brink.

We've also got the stadium expansion which will no doubt be taking up a lot of money, probably dwarfing that of the extra income we're seeing.

How do you think we will progress if no portion of earnings is set aside for transfers?

If only way for us to bring anybody is to sell to buy we have already lost.

By going after Mkhitaryan and possibly spending 25m in process is a good barometer for me that the club has set nice budget aside coz I don't believe he was pursued as a replacement for Luis.

In terms of stadium expansions all indications are that we will borrow money rather than use any earnings.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

What is the revenue bonus for CL football? Would you spend more to achieve that marker? Because our rivals are. It is the bottom line; to compete for revenue, we have to spend. Responsibly, but it is clear we are not a top 4 side without getting in depth and players on the level of the actual top 4 teams. I am not saying spend like City or Chelsea, but the team needs strengthening and we cannot gut the side to make it better. In today's market, a difference maker at £25M is not that much, I hate to say.

I get what you're saying but if they club isn't financially sound, which at the moment it doesn't appear we are then its far too risky to gamble the clubs future IMO. Patients is needed, if we can sort ourselves out off the pitch in a few years time we would be able to open up a little bit.

[Mostar]

What is the revenue bonus for CL football? Would you spend more to achieve that marker? Because our rivals are. It is the bottom line; to compete for revenue, we have to spend. Responsibly, but it is clear we are not a top 4 side without getting in depth and players on the level of the actual top 4 teams. I am not saying spend like City or Chelsea, but the team needs strengthening and we cannot gut the side to make it better. In today's market, a difference maker at £25M is not that much, I hate to say.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

How do you think we will progress if no portion of earnings is set aside for transfers?

If only way for us to bring anybody is to sell to buy we have already lost.

By going after Mkhitaryan and possibly spending 25m in process is a good barometer for me that the club has set nice budget aside coz I don't believe he was pursued as a replacement for Luis.

In terms of stadium expansions all indications are that we will borrow money rather than use any earnings.

But like I've said, if we've lost £40m+ in each of the past few years then we simply cannot afford to be spending that amount because we are not in line with the FFP rules. The new deals are really good by the looks of it and it might well allow us more freedom but if we don't end up spending £20m+ compared to what we bring in from sales then I certainly won't be calling it a lack of ambition.

I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

[Mostar]

But like I've said, if we've lost £40m+ in each of the past few years then we simply cannot afford to be spending that amount because we are not in line with the FFP rules. The new deals are really good by the looks of it and it might well allow us more freedom but if we don't end up spending £20m+ compared to what we bring in from sales then I certainly won't be calling it a lack of ambition.

I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

Out of interest.

What happens if after a few years of big losses the club splash out in an attempt to reach the top 4 and fall short? Meaning yet another year of loses. Do we sack Rodgers? More money down the drain? Spend big again because you need to spend to get in the CL? Then we'll be looking at 5 years of losses and 100% out of line with FFP regulations, then even if we finish in the top 4 we'll be risking our place.

And that's assuming we finish 4th at all.

[Mostar]

Let me answer your question this way.

Projected TV rights earnings for the last placed team in PL next year will be about £63m vs just under £40m QPR earned this year so based on that to set our summer budget at least £20m, without taking into account our sponsorship deals and marketing revenue, seems to be hardly a risk.

[BrooklynRed]

Out of interest.

What happens if after a few years of big losses the club splash out in an attempt to reach the top 4 and fall short? Meaning yet another year of loses. Do we sack Rodgers? More money down the drain? Spend big again because you need to spend to get in the CL? Then we'll be looking at 5 years of losses and 100% out of line with FFP regulations, then even if we finish in the top 4 we'll be risking our place.

And that's assuming we finish 4th at all.

What is the alternative? No CL, no revenue increase, no players willing to join, remain in 5th-7th place? What is the debt of Manchester United? It's £370 million after a recent re-financing and they are publicly traded.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677367-breaking-down-manchester-uniteds-finances-and-how-large-their-debt-is

Decent model? Would you be happy with that debt and five titles in seven years? Because this and oil money oligarchs are with whom we are competing.

[Arn]

Out of interest.

What happens if after a few years of big losses the club splash out in an attempt to reach the top 4 and fall short? Meaning yet another year of loses. Do we sack Rodgers? More money down the drain? Spend big again because you need to spend to get in the CL? Then we'll be looking at 5 years of losses and 100% out of line with FFP regulations, then even if we finish in the top 4 we'll be risking our place.

And that's assuming we finish 4th at all.

No, we don't sack Rodgers.

The mistake we did was that we signed him up in the first place. We couldn't afford in our situation to give a manager a learning year.

Now there is no point sacking him. We must give him time. If we start all over again then we will lose even more ground.

This isn't a Rafa thread but he is the manager we should have signed up. We had almost zero chance to qualify for the CL last season because the manager had to have a learning year.

How big chance would we have had if we signed up Rafa? You can only guess but my guess would be at least 50%.