The Referee Thread

[Catrin]

How far offside was Elanga? If the decision is marginal, given the standard of our referees, I reckon play on and let semi-automated VAR decide, then hope the VAR ref isn’t a moron like Darren England.

[Kenneth]

Little doubt about it in real time. It was also near the half way line so I'm not sure it met the immediate threshold.

8 mins 25 seconds:

https://youtu.be/ab5o00bk0ts?si=URnC_ZFdeZLgU4_E

I don't think there's really a way around the problem, stopping the play incorrectly can be as bad as incorrectly disallowing a valid goal, but there is a small risk of players unnecessarily exposing themselves to risk. I guess the latter is the lesser problem given the rarity.

[Buzzo]

My current bugbear with the whole ref VAR system is ‘oooh they are sending the ref to the monitor, that can only mean one thing’.

…What’s the ****ing point then? Either send him and have a discussion or don’t bother if it’s already decided. It’s stupid and pointless as it stands.

[rudedog]

My current bugbear with the whole ref VAR system is ‘oooh they are sending the ref to the monitor, that can only mean one thing’.

…What’s the ****ing point then? Either send him and have a discussion or don’t bother if it’s already decided. It’s stupid and pointless as it stands.

It’s to give the impression that it’s the Refs decision, not VAR

Pretty sure there was an example where the ref stuck with his original decision

Edit - Just checked, it was us vs Fulham a few years back. VAR thought a Fabinho challenge was a Pen but the ref stuck with original decision

[baitman]

I see that the whole "keeping the flag down until the phase of play is completed" has now resulted in a quite serious injury. I wonder if they will rethink the ruling slightly, or if it is just one of those things.

Nottingham Forest

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp92njv53k3o

The injury suffered by Nottingham Forest striker Taiwo Awoniyi has raised questions about the future of the offside law.

The 27-year-old was placed into an induced coma on Tuesday after requiring surgery on an abdominal injury sustained when he collided with the post in a 2-2 Premier League draw against Leicester City at the City Ground.

Awoniyi was attempting to get on the end of a cross by winger Anthony Elanga.

Sources have told BBC Sport that Awoniyi suffered a ruptured intestine.

He received medical attention for several minutes and had to leave the field after initially attempting to carry on. He was later taken to hospital after his condition worsened.

Forest owner Evangelos Marinakis walked on to the pitch at full-time to speak to manager Nuno Espirito Santo, "frustrated" by the medical team's "misjudgement".

Replays showed Elanga was offside in the build-up to the incident.

The assistant referee followed protocol by allowing the passage of play to continue, but the severity of Awoniyi's injury has raised doubts about the application of the law.

What is the law on 'delaying the flag'?
A new protocol on offsides was introduced by the International Football Association Board (IFAB) for the 2020-21 Premier League season.

While the law did not change, assistant referees were told to keep their flag down if they felt there was an immediate goalscoring opportunity.

Once a goal was scored or the passage of play completed, assistant referees would raise their flag to indicate offside.

Should a goal be scored, the video assistant referee (VAR) could then review the offside.

Assistant referees are told to immediately raise their flag for offside if the passage of play is not a clear or immediate goalscoring opportunity, if the passage of play is going to the wing, or if they are certain the attacker is in an offside position and there is no risk of error.

Lawmakers say this allows more goals to be scored as officials do not intervene until the attack is completed.

Although no goal was scored on Sunday, the Professional Game Match Officials Board (PGMOL) would argue the law was applied correctly given it met the criteria set by IFAB.

'Players are exposed to injury'
Former Premier League referee Keith Hackett said players are "exposed to injury" by delaying an offside flag.

"With the introduction of VAR came the process of assistant referees delaying the flag to indicate offside until the outcome - either a goal or possession of the ball by the defence," he told Radio 5 Live.

"This is to ensure where the assistant referee makes an error on an offside decision, it doesn't impact on the goal being ruled out incorrectly. Sadly, this practice does expose the risk to players of injury."

Awoniyi's injury is the most severe incident since the new application of the law was introduced.

In March 2021 Wolves goalkeeper Rui Patricio was carried off on a stretcher following 15 minutes of on-field treatment after he collided with team-mate Conor Coady against Liverpool.

Patricio took a blow to the head as he and Coady attempted to stop Mohamed Salah from scoring. The flag was raised for offside after Salah scored.

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp said: "It was an awful situation. It was a proper shock."

In December 2023 Manchester City defender John Stones was sidelined for a month after injuring an ankle in a collision with Everton's Beto.

Three weeks later City goalkeeper Ederson was substituted after colliding with Newcastle's Sean Longstaff. He was sidelined for two weeks.

Following the injury to Ederson, City captain Rodri said: "We have an injury because of this situation we are trying to fix in the last years. It is ridiculous.

"There are lots of injuries in this situation. So we have to check if it's the best option to follow the game."

Will 'ticking time bomb' law change?
The rules of football are set by IFAB and adopted by domestic leagues around the world.

IFAB board - made up of the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish Football Associations and Fifa - meets twice a year.

Typically, its spring meeting is held to discuss possible changes to the laws.

One-off meetings can be convened if there are emergency issues to discuss or rules that require immediate change.

"When an offside is so clear and obvious I think it is the duty of the assistant referee to put their flag up and stop play," former England women's midfielder Fara Williams told BBC Sport.

"When it is marginal then I get it. We have seen those fine margins with VAR when it is a toe nail to keep them onside.

"In this scenario it happened on the halfway line. This has been a time bomb waiting to go off in terms of someone getting seriously injured. Awoniyi got that horrific injury because of it.

"It should never happen. Fans, players and managers will think that should never happen.

"I am totally against it and I feel most players are as well. It is a rule that nobody likes and I am sure it will be assessed in the summer."

BBC Sport has contacted IFAB for comment.

[vlahka]

Managers been saying this would happen for a long time and just keep getting ignored. I Expect them to still be ignored.

[SB]

Yeah it’s a bit of a joke with some of the clear & obvious ones where they are off by a good meter or so.

[Kenneth]

Of course it was going to happen one day, statistically speaking, but too much is being made of it imo. I've seen reports framing it as if the lino caused the injury, which seems seriously unfair.

So what's the real risk, that there are a couple more attacking moves per game? That's it isn't it? It wouldn't be any better if the guy had been injured like that in a the move that wasn't offside would it? People have talked about changes to offside for ages, things like only flagging if there's clear daylight, or only looking at the feet, and those suggestions would mean fewer offside calls and so more attacking moves playing out, just like this rule does. I don't recall anyone objecting on the basis that players might get injured. It seems to boil down to him being injured without the justification of a goalscoring opportunity, as if the futility makes a difference, but I can't really see why that's materially worse.

[SB]

I’m definitely not blaming the Lino but they are there to do a job, if it’s obvious raise your flag straight away not 30 yds down field.

[Buzzo]

Of course it was going to happen one day, statistically speaking, but too much is being made of it imo. I've seen reports framing it as if the lino caused the injury, which seems seriously unfair.

So what's the real risk, there a couple more attacking moves per game? That's it isn't it? It wouldn't be any better if the guy had been injured like that in a the move that wasn't offside would it? People have talked about changes to offside for ages, things like only flagging if there's clear daylight, or only looking at the feet, and those suggestions would mean fewer offside calls and so more attacking moves playing out, just like this rule does. I don't recall anyone objecting on the basis that players might get injured. It seems to boil down to him being injured without the justification of a goalscoring opportunity, as if the futility makes a difference, but I can't really see why that's materially worse.

I don’t see how it makes any difference really. Injuries happen in sport.

[baitman]

I don’t see how it makes any difference really. Injuries happen in sport.

The play needlessly continues into the danger area, attackers going full pelt, defenders commit to put a block in, goalie comes steaming out, lots of potential for injuries when the flag and whistle can stop it.
It it's clearly not marginal then play should be stopped for offside.

[Buzzo]

I agree when it’s an obvious offside, but on the marginal ones then the higher chance is they take raise the flag and then it’s not offside and everyone goes mental about that.

[Kenneth]

The play needlessly continues into the danger area, attackers going full pelt, defenders commit to put a block in, goalie comes steaming out, lots of potential for injuries when the flag and whistle can stop it.
It it's clearly not marginal then play should be stopped for offside.

Come on through, it's not a "dangerous area". Have you ever seen an attack start and though "oh no, someone might get hurt"? If it's actually dangerous the game should be doing something to limit the number of attacking situations per game in the name of player safely. It's a non-issue.

[baitman]

Come on through, it's not a "dangerous area". Have you ever seen an attack start and though "oh no, someone might get hurt"? If it's actually dangerous the game should be doing something to limit the number of attacking situations per game in the name of player safely. It's a non-issue.

Klopp was often raging about these **** decisions, allowing play to continue and then the flag goes up, many times we have defenders or goalie putting themselves at extra risk of injuries from impact or pulling a muscle or hammy, etc.

Maybe klopp was a drama queen then

[vlahka]

Its certainly dangerous. When a player is clearly offside and they allow play, the defenders slow down slightly expecting a call, you see this often, then they scramble when the flag doesnt go up. Extra push on muscles, extra chances of them going for a last ditch desperate tackle. If it looks offside, call it. If you're not sure, let it go. Hell, VVD was taken out for months by pickford during offside play.