Time to kop the truth Kelvin

[captainfog]

Mate, if only I knew. I’m still ****ing fuming about the whole thing.

He used to go to football a lot – barely goes at all now. He goes to a lot of gigs.

He, like most Mancs, has the blind-spot when it comes to Scousers or, more pertinently, hating us. I tried those angles, mentioned it had nothing to do with club allegiance, but there’s no getting through to him or the others. Their sheer hatred for all things LFC renders a mature discussion impossible.

Talk to them about music not football then.

You must have had something in common with them to be friends in the first place, and I doubt this LFC hating part of their personality is a new thing.

[mick the click]

My earlier post was a knee-jerk reaction, but I really can't see how anyone can not understand our grieveances.

captainfog, I suspect, provides the best way through it. Maybe don't get in touch with him for a while and see how it looks in a month or two.

[zimbo]

As much as you/me/we love Liverpool IMO you shouldn't let it rule your life ie dictate who you socialise with.

Most of them have a soft soft for liverpool through association with me, however, some just to piss me off will support the opposing side when we watch games together. I enjoy a bit of banter with them and then after the game has finished it is all forgotten.

Is there not a difference though between wanting our opponents to win and wilfully and metaphorically pissing on the graves of the Hillsborough victims?

[Shaggy]

Are they people you'd see or speak to on a regular basis?

If so you're probably best having no contact with them for a week or two. Or maybe even longer.

If in that time they haven't understood the seriousness of the issue and offered some apology, or haven't at least tried to make some contact with you to find out why you're not speaking to them, then they're maybe not the kind of mates you'd want to hang around with anyway?

Unfortunately this is the one area where I find it hard to make any sort of compromise. Anyone who crosses the line and thinks this is suitable wind-up material, or won't admit their own ignorance when it is shown to them deserves anything they have coming to them.

Good luck with it though.

Cheers mate.

I’m in email contact with these mates every day. It’s been that way for years. Rarely actually see them anymore though.

There is absolutely NO chance of an apology. Not a prayer.

Like you, this is the one area that I cannot compromise. D’you know what’s sickened me? They (mainly the Manc ringleader) claim I’m only getting in huff to try and prove what a big fan I am. Superfan jibes. I just can’t believe it and it’s very, very maddening. They’re spouting bollocks like “what have you got to be upset about? You didn’t lose any family there…”. This sort of stuff has amazed and sickened me.

As I said, they’re normally smart people. I don’t befriend morons. I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall and it’s really got under my skin. Big time.

[rushscored4]

It just proves the power of the press. No matter how many facts you throw at these ignorant ***** they'd rather believe the lies of pricks like Mackenzie because it was in the papers so "it must be true"...

I know many people (mostly Mancs) very similar to this guy you know. I can accept good natured banter from people but - as someone who was stretchered off and lost a mate at Hillsborough - I will not accept ill-informed, ignorant **** from anybody.

I'd rather keep my dignity and principles than the 'friendship' of a tosser like the fella you described.

[kurtangle01]

Cheers mate.

I’m in email contact with these mates every day. It’s been that way for years. Rarely actually see them anymore though.

There is absolutely NO chance of an apology. Not a prayer.

Like you, this is the one area that I cannot compromise. D’you know what’s sickened me? They (mainly the Manc ringleader) claim I’m only getting in huff to try and prove what a big fan I am. Superfan jibes. I just can’t believe it and it’s very, very maddening. They’re spouting bollocks like “what have you got to be upset about? You didn’t lose any family there…”. This sort of stuff has amazed and sickened me.

As I said, they’re normally smart people. I don’t befriend morons. I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall and it’s really got under my skin. Big time.

They don't sound like the kind of people that I could socialise with but it's up to you to decide if your friendship is worth keeping.

[rushscored4]

Just to add to my earlier comments, my youngest daughter's schoolfriend has a 'father' just like the prick you described. He is forever making snide comments about scousers and saying sick things about Hillsborough. I believe from a mutual mate that this dickhead even had home-made posters on his car about "scousers kill scousers" when he drove down for the 2003 League Cup Final at Cardiff...

I give his daughter a lift to school with mine every morning (it's not her fault that her Dad's a complete ******) but it's really awkward when I bump into him at school and other events as I want to rip the ****'s head off...

His wife is Spanish and really sound. She can't stand Man U (she's a Barca fan) but she says she married him for better or worse and can't stop him coming out with his sick bile. Apart from making sure you ignore the ignorant ****, what else can you possibly do?

[Red_Polo]

As much as you/me/we love Liverpool IMO you shouldn't let it rule your life ie dictate who you socialise with.

In a perfect world everyone would support liverpool, but they don't and I guess that is what makes it a more interesting place to live. I have friends who support watford, arsenal, manure, cov and even the chavs. Most of them have a soft soft for liverpool through association with me, however, some just to piss me off will support the opposing side when we watch games together. I enjoy a bit of banter with them and then after the game has finished it is all forgotten.

This is not about football rivalry this is about common decency and humanity. Frankly it doesn't matter what club they support, or whether they like LFC or not, if they spout absolute ****e like that even after beign offered the facts then how the hell can you just gloss over it? You can't.

[Neil Young]

Captain Fog's right IMO. Ignore them for a while.

You could have a private chat with your Bluenose mate and see what he has to say about it.

[Neil Young]

This is not about football rivalry this is about common decency and humanity. Frankly it doesn't matter what club they support, or whether they like LFC or not, if they spout absolute ****e like that even after beign offered the facts then how the hell can you just gloss over it? You can't.

They probably don't see it as having nothing to do with football.

How many times have we heard Liverpool fans sing about Munich? To a Man United fan that was always much more important than football (and I paraphrase Shanks deliberately).

[Red_Polo]

They probably don't see it as having nothing to do with football.

How many times have we heard Liverpool fans sing about Munich? To a Man United fan that was always much more important than football (and I paraphrase Shanks deliberately).

Yes and they are also right. I wouldn't expect any Man Utd fan to gloss over a so called friend of his who made light of that.

[Neil Young]

Yes I understand that and of course would expect nothing less of you. What I'm saying is that many people are capable of misjudgments and football rivalries can really get in the way of being sensitive to others.

Of course if a week or two goes by and Shaggy decides it's not worth keeping in with these mates then that's OK too.

[JRC]

And there are many here who would agree that singing - or especially ongoing, ill-informed ranting - about Munich is unacceptable.

Personally, I would take and para-phrase the advice of The Specials on this one, but with dignity. If you are being accused of 'Super Fannery', then they clearly don't understand how important this is, and are unwilling to learn. Walk away, accentuating their ignorance and insensitivity.

Of course I've never had to do this with friends, but I take great pleasure in that I once had a Rep - who was strongly in line for a large contract that was in my power to award - summarily escorted off the premises for making similar comments, and advised hsd boss, so he got the tin-tack. Ha!

[Red_Polo]

Yes I understand that and of course would expect nothing less of you. What I'm saying is that many people are capable of misjudgments and football rivalries can really get in the way of being sensitive to others.

Oh definitely. I think it takes a certain level of cuntery though, to notice the kind of reaction your views are inducing from someone who when all is said and done is supposed to be a friend, and still spout your views with such vigour, disregarding the facts all the while.

I had a friend once who made a very callous remark about it and being drunk at the time* I went into a rage and got aggressive. The next time I saw him though he was just really embarassed to have said something that could cause such offence. The guys Shaggy is on about don't really seem to care how much offence they cause, which is what makes it so much worse than them just having ignorant views.

*no jokes please

[Tinkerbitch]

Serious question and a touch of advice needed – would you carry on being friends with someone who spouts the sort of **** shown above? I’ve exploded at him this afternoon and have been emailing back and forth for over two hours. The cnut, despite me throwing stacks of evidence back in his face, refuses to change his stance. He’s arguing with the wrong bloke here cos he is seriously ill-informed and he misguidedly thinks he should be toeing the Manc line, whereas I’m aware of all the facts. Despite putting him in his place ten times over, he’s still in my face with jibes and insults.

Would you stand for it? I’m on the brink of telling him I never wanna hear from him again. Been mates for over 10 years, although not what you’d call best mates. These sort of arguments occur every so often and I can’t be doing with it. I’m starting to seriously hate him, borne mainly out of footballing differences.

Depends on your definition of a mate. For me, anyone that said something that hurt me that much isn't a mate. To say it once or twice as part of football rivalries that can make us all a bit aggresive is one thing, to persistenly repeat something so deeply hurtful means he's not a mate. I wouldn't even let him know why, just stop replying to emails, calls etc.