The Official 'Cat amongst the pigeons thread'

[Reece]

Explain why then, rather than making a narky post and waltzing off without justifying it.

You beat me to it

[bazza76]

Nobody is ‘deluded’ or ‘clueless’ – people just see the game differently.

In MY OPINION, Gerrard is probably a better central-midfielder generally speaking but in OUR TEAM he is more effective on the right and we are a much better balanced team with him on the right.

The point has already been raised but he is often devastating in the middle against the poorer sides. Unfortunately, against the top sides, he is rarely a force from central positions. In countless league games over the years against United, Chelsea and to a lesser extent Arsenal, he has been something of a shrinking violet.

Hence, when Momo is fit he returns to the right. Those of us who tend to think along those lines have the backing of the only man that matters – the gaffer.

Well said.
Its so frustrating for me personally listening to people ringing in on phone ins, and Andy Gray going on about Gerrard in the middle. I even heard one person ringing in saying Rafa should step aside. What absolute bull****.
Rafa is clearly still doing the best he can with an average hand, he has a football phylosophy which needs a few more ingredients to see proper results from, especially in the League. Only thing we are really missing IMO is some real quality on the wings, preferably with pace, add to that the fact that both Gerrard and Garcia can act as attacking midfielders be in centrally or out wide, I think we should have a much more potent league side. Replace Fowler with a decent goalscorer with better legs would be the icing on the cake.

[tomasjj]

Explain why then, rather than making a narky post and waltzing off without justifying it.

Crucifiction!!

[red g]

The team might be better "balanced" with Gerrard on the right, whatever that means, but look at our results THIS season with him on the right and compare them to the results with him in the middle.
And forget the cup matches, I'm talking about the Premiership.

Delighted when momo is back, but he should have to earn his place.

All our team was woefully out of formearlier this season though, so unfair to judge then.

I think the problem lies in Gerrards head, if he ses himself as a CM and he doesnt like being out on the right will we get 120%? probably not

[redlancer]

Agree with howard here

For me Stevie doesn't run the midfield or lacks discipline and does his best work when we're chasing games or against poor oposition, as there's less defensive duties and we're pushing forward.

He can do the driving runs, the link up play, but in the tough chess like games he's yet to come out and boss the game. Not saying he can't defend and come running back.

I'd like to see him given the free role the Aimar position so to speak.

Again he's our best RM but again lacks dicipline to help out the RB, he drifts in too often.

Formation at weekend and swap one of the fowards for Stevie, he could then go where ever and leave the day to day stuff in the Centre to Momo and Xabi and helps out as and when.

I'd like to see him and Kuyt deeper with Belamy up front.
That gives 3 players who seem to link up well and can all drift out wide and run in from deep positions

[Fierce]

What is wrong with the 4-3-3 formation we used at the weekend?

Reina

Finnan - Carragher - Agger - Aurelio/Riise

Sissoko

Gerrard - Alonso

Bellamy - Kuyt - Kewell

Or however you want to write it down. We know how hard all three of the 'strikers' work, so having our 3 best midfielders playing together, with the support of the guys up front should the need it, would see us incredibly strong in midfield and attack

[ElRobbie]

Explain why then, rather than making a narky post and waltzing off without justifying it.

I have done, many times before.

The right sided role isn't more productive for him and it doesn't give him the freedom to express himself because he finds himself wanting the ball all the time rather than having it to do something with, he gets more posession in the centre and he can still move out into wide areas when necessary.

We need a productive right winger and Gerrard in an attacking central midfield role. Having Sissoko and Alonso in the middle is too defensive for my liking, we play to deep, you don't need two central midfielders that play quite deep. Sissoko offers nothing in attack, if he did, there might be an argument for playing Gerrard on the right.

Aside from that, what was the point in wasting £6.75m on Pennant and then playing Gerrard on the right?

Anyone who knows anything about football except Rafa can see that Stevie's best position is in central midfield, Stevie says that himself as well, if he plays in an attacking central midfield role he can still drift into wide areas anyway.

People go an about how many goals he scored last season, but they forget that he only played on the right in the second half of the season and if you look at his goals they are mainly from central positions, how could you possibly score more goals from the wing than an attacking central midfield role, its not where you line up at the start of the game that is significant as to scoring goals, its the position you are in at the time of the goal, if he has to cut inside and come central to score goals then we are sacrifing having the threat of a winger crossing balls into the box, which is something he doesn't do when he's on the right, quite evidently as how would he have scored those goals if he was playing a winger's role.

It didn't work earlier in the season as we missed his influence in the middle and he was lost at times.

He's our only goal scoring midfielder at the end of the day and we need him more central where he'll get more opportunities.

[badpiggy]

I have done, many times before.

The right sided role isn't more productive for him and it doesn't give him the freedom to express himself because he finds himself wanting the ball all the time rather than having it to do something with, he gets more posession in the centre and he can still move out into wide areas when necessary.

We need a productive right winger and Gerrard in an attacking central midfield role. Having Sissoko and Alonso in the middle is too defensive for my liking, we play to deep, you don't need two central midfielders that play quite deep. Sissoko offers nothing in attack, if he did, there might be an argument for playing Gerrard on the right.

Aside from that, what was the point in wasting £6.75m on Pennant and then playing Gerrard on the right?

Anyone who knows anything about football except Rafa can see that Stevie's best position is in central midfield, Stevie says that himself as well, if he plays in an attacking central midfield role he can still drift into wide areas anyway.

People go an about how many goals he scored last season, but they forget that he only played on the right in the second half of the season and if you look at his goals they are mainly from central positions, how could you possibly score more goals from the wing than an attacking central midfield role, its not where you line up at the start of the game that is significant as to scoring goals, its the position you are in at the time of the goal, if he has to cut inside and come central to score goals then we are sacrifing having the threat of a winger crossing balls into the box, which is something he doesn't do when he's on the right, quite evidently as how would he have scored those goals if he was playing a winger's role.

It didn't work earlier in the season as we missed his influence in the middle and he was lost at times.

He's our only goal scoring midfielder at the end of the day and we need him more central where he'll get more opportunities.

hate to constantly go on about this, but if sg is the midfield general everyone and himself thinks he is, why the **** is he not a significant contributor against our supposed nearest rivals - scum, arse and chav? i really think that people are talking about two different things here - sg is not a central midfielder in the mold of souness or keane or fabreagas or kaka or scholes or viera - he does not battle to win the ball, hold possession and pass creatively. in a classic central midfielder, everyhing in the centre of the pitch goes through him. think riquelme (sp?) but with guts. sg is a powerhouse not a general. if sg is in the middle momo-less, he finds it hard to win back a game against good opposition because he is not the type of footballer to dig the ball out somewhere between halfway and his own box and creatively and incisively pass us into a position of control.

the best that can be said of sg's midfield presence is that he is lethal running into space behind the front two (or one) and scores spectacular goals from here - think lampard if he was actually any good. in fact him and lampard are basically the same in terms of ideal role only sg is infinitely better.

[Sir Bob]

hate to constantly go on about this, but if sg is the midfield general everyone and himself thinks he is, why the **** is he not a significant contributor against our supposed nearest rivals - scum, arse and chav? i really think that people are talking about two different things here - sg is not a central midfielder in the mold of souness or keane or fabreagas or kaka or scholes or viera - he does not battle to win the ball, hold possession and pass creatively. in a classic central midfielder, everyhing in the centre of the pitch goes through him. think riquelme (sp?) but with guts. sg is a powerhouse not a general. if sg is in the middle momo-less, he finds it hard to win back a game against good opposition because he is not the type of footballer to dig the ball out somewhere between halfway and his own box and creatively and incisively pass us into a position of control.

the best that can be said of sg's midfield presence is that he is lethal running into space behind the front two (or one) and scores spectacular goals from here - think lampard if he was actually any good. in fact him and lampard are basically the same in terms of ideal role only sg is infinitely better.

Sorry mate, but thats a shocking post.

I thought i'd stumbled upon a Man U site given some of the ante SG stuff on here. He can't do this, he can't do that etc. He's not as good as this player or that player. i think some people need a reality check. If SG doesn't completely run the game, scoring a couple of 30 yarders people think he's had a bad game.

Against our main rivals he more than hold his own. Name me any player that is going to dominate the likes of arsenal, Man U & Chelsea every game. People go on about alonso & Momo being the best CM pairing but name me a game when either of them has dominated against the other big 3.

SG is one of the best central midfield players in the worl, everybody knows that and thats where he must play for us.

[badpiggy]

Sorry mate, but thats a shocking post.

I thought i'd stumbled upon a Man U site given some of the ante SG stuff on here. He can't do this, he can't do that etc. He's not as good as this player or that player. i think some people need a reality check. If SG doesn't completely run the game, scoring a couple of 30 yarders people think he's had a bad game.

Against our main rivals he more than hold his own. Name me any player that is going to dominate the likes of arsenal, Man U & Chelsea every game. People go on about alonso & Momo being the best CM pairing but name me a game when either of them has dominated against the other big 3.

SG is one of the best central midfield players in the worl, everybody knows that and thats where he must play for us.

we're not disagreeing about whether sg is an excellent player not brother sir bob - it's just somewhere along the way everybody started to "re-understand" the idea of a central midfielder. and no matter what set of criteria you use, sg up until now does not tick enough of the boxes to qualify as a central midfielder.

[Ben_Itez]

With this 3-4-3 formation does anyone think Gerrard might fit into the Kuyt role (as played against Watford) allowing Xabi and Momo to play in the middle behind him. Obviously 2 from DK, Crouchy and Bellers up top.

Generally liking this formation as there's plenty of flexibility.

3-5-2, 5-3-2, 3-4-1-2, 3-4-3 depending on where the ball is.

Not sure how it'd work against the top sides but there's only one way to find out......

[badpiggy]

Sorry mate, but thats a shocking post.

I thought i'd stumbled upon a Man U site given some of the ante SG stuff on here. He can't do this, he can't do that etc. He's not as good as this player or that player. i think some people need a reality check. If SG doesn't completely run the game, scoring a couple of 30 yarders people think he's had a bad game.

Against our main rivals he more than hold his own. Name me any player that is going to dominate the likes of arsenal, Man U & Chelsea every game. People go on about alonso & Momo being the best CM pairing but name me a game when either of them has dominated against the other big 3.

SG is one of the best central midfield players in the worl, everybody knows that and thats where he must play for us.

it would also be true to say that scholes/an other, lampard/makalele and fabregas/gilberto don't gave too many problems keeping one of the best central midfielders in the world very quiet when we paly them. none of this takes away from sg's abilities.

[tomasjj]

Why the polar views on the SG matter?
Sometimes on the right sometimes in the middle, dependent on opposition, but not least, on the formation used.

How must one be a SG hater to claim he isn't as good as he likes to think himself? He holds himself in high regard, understandably so, but I tend to agree that he isn't the midfield general he thinks he is. I think a poster above pointed this out, and it has been depated before that SG sometimes is too eager to be involved all over the pitch, thus leaving a hole in the centremid.
He looks to have improved the last games though, showing more positional dicipline.

[Shaggy]

Why the polar views on the SG matter?
Sometimes on the right sometimes in the middle, dependent on opposition, but not least, on the formation used.

How must one be a SG hater to claim he isn't as good as he likes to think himself? He holds himself in high regard, understandably so, but I tend to agree that he isn't the midfield general he thinks he is. I think a poster above pointed this out, and it has been depated before that SG sometimes is too eager to be involved all over the pitch, thus leaving a hole in the centremid.
He looks to have improved the last games though, showing more positional dicipline.

Aye he has, but when Stevie does decide to show a bit of positional discipline, he loses that "oomph" from his game that marks him apart from most midfielders. When Stevie is asked to be 'disciplined', he becomes just another footballer. His natural game, full of bluster, is so ill-disciplined, positionally, that he can't play to his strengths when deployed in the middle of the park. Given a nominally right-sided role, with licence to move into the middle (or wherever the **** he likes, which is how he seems to want it) then he can wreak his usual havoc.

I wish some people on here would stop being so arrogant though. If there's a marked difference of opinion, it's a "shocking post", or you're "clueless". FFS get a grip people.

[tomasjj]

Aye he has, but when Stevie does decide to show a bit of positional discipline, he loses that "oomph" from his game that marks him apart from most midfielders. When Stevie is asked to be 'disciplined', he becomes just another footballer. His natural game, full of bluster, is so ill-disciplined, positionally, that he can't play to his strengths when deployed in the middle of the park. Given a nominally right-sided role, with licence to move into the middle (or wherever the **** he likes, which is how he seems to want it) then he can wreak his usual havoc.

I wish some people on here would stop being so arrogant though. If there's a marked difference of opinion, it's a "shocking post", or you're "clueless". FFS get a grip people.

Aye, put him in centremid with too much defensive duties and it ruins the parts of his game that makes his class.