Voronin

[Shaggy]

Crouch looked top class at Southampton, Bellamy did at Blackburn and they both scored more goals than they did at Anfield. Go figure.

Yes we create chances, but our forwards get far less space than they did at their previous clubs.

Kuyt has scored 9 goals in the prem so far, in his first season. He also contributes with his hard work. There is no stats what so ever to suggest Berbatov would do a better job. Ive seen him miss some sitters this year I can tell you and he can also be pretty lazy and lethargic. Hes a good player, but maybe not the answer to our prayers.

That's a fair assessment.

We've all seen Berbatov over the years for Leverkusen and, while he's always been a good player, he's never displayed this level of form. I remember him scoring an absolute wonder goal against Roma in an emtpy Olympic Stadium in the CL once, but aside from that I'd say he's peaking now - either that or simply playing out of his skin.

Lambasting him for playing well against the likes of Braga is unfair - he looked equally sublime against Chelsea last week in the Cup.

[El Jefecito]

Kuyt has played the whole season as second striker in a new league. I'm surprised so many people are judging him so early on in his liverpool career.

If he was being played as an out and out striker you'd see a different player.

Exactly, what I've been thinking all along

[Ron_Mexico]

Dare I say it but I'm starting to sour on Kuyt just a little bit.

Felt my initial instincts were correct about him. Good player, decent at everything, exceptional at nothing apart from his workrate.

That said in no way shape or form do I think that Berbatov would have been better for us that Kuyt has been to date.

got to say i agree, kuyt has disappointed me in that i expected a more polished striker

he doesnt seem as natural in the final third as i thought he'd be. his finishing and approach play leave alot to be desired. often on a break he picks the wrong option or keeps possession too long, and he seems to lack vision. his finishing is clumsy and rushed. with the amount of running he does and his 100% bustling all the time i style i think he finds it difficult to settle himself and concentrate to put the chances away.

i cant say whether berbatov would be any better, he misses alot of easy chances too

[Howard_lfc]

got to say i agree, kuyt has disappointed me in that i expected a more polished striker

he doesnt seem as natural in the final third as i thought he'd be. his finishing and approach play leave alot to be desired. often on a break he picks the wrong option or keeps possession too long, and he seems to lack vision. his finishing is clumsy and rushed. with the amount of running he does and his 100% bustling all the time i style i think he finds it difficult to settle himself and concentrate to put the chances away.

Cant disagree with any of that really RM. I think most people saw the montages of his goals in Holland (via you tube etc) and thought we were getting a clinical finisher - myself included. Rafa likes to play him 'between the lines' and I'm sure he's got plenty of assists this season - but it's also one of the reasons why his goal tally is lower than expected and also why he possibly snatches at chances when they occurr.
I daresay if we change our formation a little - allowing another player to play in advance of midfield (SG?) then Dirk would get more chances and hence more goals.

[tomasjj]

got to say i agree, kuyt has disappointed me in that i expected a more polished striker

he doesnt seem as natural in the final third as i thought he'd be. his finishing and approach play leave alot to be desired. often on a break he picks the wrong option or keeps possession too long, and he seems to lack vision. his finishing is clumsy and rushed. with the amount of running he does and his 100% bustling all the time i style i think he finds it difficult to settle himself and concentrate to put the chances away.

i cant say whether berbatov would be any better, he misses alot of easy chances too

A fair assessment imo.
I was also a bit sceptical towards Kuyt after seeing a couple of Feyenoord games before we signed him.
Let's hope he gets better, but I fear his raw abilities leaves a bit to be desired.

[Neil Young]

That's a fair assessment.

We've all seen Berbatov over the years for Leverkusen and, while he's always been a good player, he's never displayed this level of form. I remember him scoring an absolute wonder goal against Roma in an emtpy Olympic Stadium in the CL once, but aside from that I'd say he's peaking now - either that or simply playing out of his skin.

Lambasting him for playing well against the likes of Braga is unfair - he looked equally sublime against Chelsea last week in the Cup.

No-one's lambasting him - I'm questioning whether a good performance against Braga is sufficient evidence for anyone to believe he would be so much better than Kuyt.

He is playing well and looks good but it makes me really quite angry that his performances in the UEFA Cup and more generally for a middle-ranking team should be used as a stick with which to beat one of our own players.

[Shaggy]

No-one's lambasting him - I'm questioning whether a good performance against Braga is sufficient evidence for anyone to believe he would be so much better than Kuyt.

Well that's what I meant - so how about his performance against Chelsea? Why not mention that?

[Neil Young]

I didn't raise the issue of how well he's been playing in the first place, you did. You can base it on all games if you like - it doesn't invalidate my point. He stands out at Spurs because he's playing in an inferior team - that's what good players should do at places like that. My point was whether he'd stand out in a better team like, er, us.

As for the Chelsea game specifically I didn't see it but OK, you say he played brilliantly, I'm quite happy to take your word for it. So what does it tell us? Well, it's one game so good or bad, essentially nothing, anyone can have a good day. After that, it might tell us that he is capable of producing it against top sides so he might be a contender for a team playing at a higher level than Spurs. I'd concede that.

What I won't concede is that he has proved his abilities to the point where anyone can use him to justify their personal dislike of Kuyt's abilities.

[Shaggy]

I don't have any kind of dislike for Kuyt. It's impossible not to like him with his attitude. I just don't think he's particularly gifted.

[Neil Young]

I don't have any kind of dislike for Kuyt. It's impossible not to like him with his attitude. I just don't think he's particularly gifted.

That's what I meant - I did say "dislike for his abilities". You could be right about Kuyt too but I do think you're being a little premature.

[rushscored4]

Has Voronin changed his name to Kuyt or has another thread been hijacked?

[Neil Young]

Has Voronin changed his name to Kuyt or has another thread been hijacked?

I don't know. I made up a song for Voronin earlier in the thread and no bugger even bothered to abuse me for it. I'm clinging to the hope that no-one recognised the tune but you'd be the right age for it...



Now then:

Kuyt Kuyt let it all out...

[FowlerLeftFoot]

having a good game against M'gladbach, a few shots on target, a couple of good crosses, the commentator is full of praise for him...

[Kinell]

having a good game against M'gladbach, a few shots on target, a couple of good crosses, the commentator is full of praise for him...

He getting on the end of crosses, making space and shooting in the box?

[FowlerLeftFoot]

unfortunately he looks to be doing a little bit of each, which disqualify him to being a "Rafa type of striker" i guess!!

He getting on the end of crosses, making space and shooting in the box?