Brazil Vs. Chile - Dani Alaves vs Speedy

[CJ]

did we not all say we needed another striker?

so the players havent performed as well as we would have liked so now Rafa should have signed Alves.

if Alves hadnt performed how many people would be saying we needed more players to spend all that on one player was madness

but i guess some people dont understand how easy things are in hindsight

[anfieldanfield]

[QUOTE=Marsh;355593]did we not all say we needed another striker?

so the players havent performed as well as we would have liked so now Rafa should have signed Alves.

if Alves hadnt performed how many people would be saying we needed more players to spend all that on one player was madness

but i guess some people dont understand how easy things are in hindsight [/QUOTE]

I and many others on 6CM were saying this all last summer.

Pennant, Gonzalez, Bellamy, Aurelio and co have been crap.

That money would have been much better spent on Dani Alves.

[dww]

Ah, I see the RCDNW brigade are out in force tonight...

In the past three years ONLY Mourinho has spent more money than Rafa Benitez, yet many of you appear very happy to swallow Rafa's "I've had no cash to spend...honest" line.

Rafa could have bought Kuyt and Alves in the summer. He didn't, he decided to bring in a load of fringe players to bulk up an already over-inflated squad.

Last summer: Alves = 15m maxmimum

Last summer: Gonzalez, Pennant, Bellamy, Paletta and Aurelio = 15m

Can you see it now ?

I will agree that the summer signings haven't worked out as planned, however to be honest the problem this season has been largely that previously proven performers have been poor. Gerrard & Alonso have not lived up to previous seasons and earlier in the season Carra and Reina could have be added to the list.

It is not clear to me if that is Rafas fault, the players, or an unfortunate hang over from the world cup. It is definitely a cheap shot and a poor argumentative technique to label everyone who disagrees with you as part of a nebulous "RCDNW brigade".

I am convinced that our squad was improved by the players we bought in. Gonzalez and Palleta were bought for the future and could well yet prove their worth. I'm unconvinced that the £200,000 paid in compensation for Aurelio seriously damaged our ability to pay for Alves.

Seeing as Cisse got injured we would have needed another forward. £6m for Bellamy is decent value if you ask me as he will have maintained his value.

As has been pointed out there is every chance that Alves would have eaither not have settled immediately or even at all. Also you state as if it is known fact that we could have got Alves for £15m at the most, Seville have in the past always demanded very high fees (witness the bleating of the Barca officials in the last few weeks), so it seems likely that they would have wanted a high fee for Alves especially as they thought with him they had a chance of challenging for the league.

[keniget]

I think RCDNW is bandied about as some people on here, even yourself perhaps (?), refuse to hand out any blame to Rafa whatsoever. It's always the players, the board, the other clubs etc.

Of course, it's not always the managers fault and he can't be blamed for everything, but there is certainly enough cause to point the finger at Rafa for our problems and too many people refuse to do that for whatever reasons.

Never criticising doesn't make you a better supporter.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

That money would have been much better spent on Dani Alves.

You have absolutely no evidence to suggest this is true.

I for one don't think that Rafa is infallible. But to suggest quite categorically that he made a mistake by buying the likes of Bellamy, Pennant and Gonzalez instead of Alves is inaccurate.

[Harv]

Ah, I see the RCDNW brigade are out in force tonight...

In the past three years ONLY Mourinho has spent more money than Rafa Benitez, yet many of you appear very happy to swallow Rafa's "I've had no cash to spend...honest" line.

Rafa could have bought Kuyt and Alves in the summer. He didn't, he decided to bring in a load of fringe players to bulk up an already over-inflated squad.

Last summer: Alves = 15m maxmimum

Last summer: Gonzalez, Pennant, Bellamy, Paletta and Aurelio = 15m

Can you see it now ?

it would of been nice to spend the cash on just 1 player.....but we needed the "squad" players.

Bellamy- to replace Cisse
Gonzo- we had already agreed to sign him. Plus LW was very thin.
Pennant- second choice to Alves
Paletta- i'll admit, we didnt need him.

[Harv]

[QUOTE=anfieldanfield;355597]

did we not all say we needed another striker?

so the players havent performed as well as we would have liked so now Rafa should have signed Alves.

if Alves hadnt performed how many people would be saying we needed more players to spend all that on one player was madness

but i guess some people dont understand how easy things are in hindsight [/QUOTE]

I and many others on 6CM were saying this all last summer.

Pennant, Gonzalez, Bellamy, Aurelio and co have been crap.

That money would have been much better spent on Dani Alves.

Thats because you lot are all a flipping bunch of whingers

And Aurelio didnt cost anything you foolish boy:whatever:

stop throwing his name into the equation.

[einar]

[QUOTE=anfieldanfield;355597]

did we not all say we needed another striker?

so the players havent performed as well as we would have liked so now Rafa should have signed Alves.

if Alves hadnt performed how many people would be saying we needed more players to spend all that on one player was madness

but i guess some people dont understand how easy things are in hindsight [/QUOTE]

I and many others on 6CM were saying this all last summer.

Pennant, Gonzalez, Bellamy, Aurelio and co have been crap.

That money would have been much better spent on Dani Alves.

That is an assumption. We dont know. He could have gotten injured, lost form, found religion and joined a monastery. We just dont know. It was simply Rafas decision to buy more players as that would be safer.
We had Finnan and Gerrard for the right wing. Hardly sloppy.

[keniget]

Heh, so everyone is essentially just sitting on the fence. How very interesting.

"Houller was right not to get C.Ronaldo for 4M. Who knows how he'd have turned out for us. He might have broken his leg, never played again etc."

[einar]

ManU paid 12m for him did they not?

[dww]

I think RCDNW is bandied about as some people on here, even yourself perhaps (?), refuse to hand out any blame to Rafa whatsoever. It's always the players, the board, the other clubs etc.

Of course, it's not always the managers fault and he can't be blamed for everything, but there is certainly enough cause to point the finger at Rafa for our problems and too many people refuse to do that for whatever reasons.

Never criticising doesn't make you a better supporter.

I'm certainly supportive of Rafa. I will question the things he does though. So far though I think that he has had to try and reshape a squad on a relatively small budget. the reason Wenger and Fergie have spent less is because they have had many years to lay the foundations for a squad that they wanted.

I just don't buy that we had a good enough squad last season to only add two players and be title challengers. Rafa decided that the gamble on more players who might make it was better than to put all his eggs in one basket, which seems a perfectly understandable decision to me.

Alves was a huge risk. He may well have paid off but I think that it is very easy to criticise, particularly in hindsight. I certainly don't see it as a metter of who is the better fan, it's just that relentless negativity is as pointless as positivity and using unprovable hypotheses as if they are fact is a bit annoying.

I will add some criticism of Rafa, to keep you all happy:

I would say that the purchase of Palletta was a bit questionable, as he was always a gamble and a long term move. However I really don't think that his purchase had many ramifications in terms of the other players coming in.

I also think Rafa has been slow to recognise/correct the fact that this season Gerrard has when played nominally on the right drifted in all of the time and completely ****ed up the team setup.

[keniget]

ManU paid 12m for him did they not?

They did. The story goes however, that we were offered him for 4M, but declined. Then Man Utd go and buy him for 12M. It's not really the point though.

[einar]

They did. The story goes however, that we were offered him for 4M, but declined. Then Man Utd go and buy him for 12M. It's not really the point though.

I´m pretty sure I read a quote from Phil Thompson that they though that they had bought him for 4m and where pretty happy with the deal when they heard the news that ManU had offered 12m and got him from under our noses.

So Ronaldo is not a good example to use.

But I think we all see your point.

[keniget]

Heh, I don't really know you as a poster, so I can't say one way or the other, but many do like to get on their high horse when they see people criticising the manger. I find it a bit cringeworthy personally.

My opinion is that Rafa has had a decent amount to reshape his squad with. The fact that he can't work with certain players or change his philosophy to work with what he's got *for now*, are not excuses. If you desperately want a player who you see as a KEY part of your plans for the next few years, is it not worth sacrificing in the short-term to gain in the long-term? The result of not doing so is wasting all your money on stopgaps (again) and then finding yourself in the same situation of not being able to afford what you need next summer. Luckily for Rafa (and us), we got investment in, which will bail us out.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I also think Rafa has been slow to recognise/correct the fact that this season Gerrard has when played nominally on the right drifted in all of the time and completely ****ed up the team setup.

This is one area where we can criticise accurately - his tactics, because we have some evidence to do so.