Brazil Vs. Chile - Dani Alaves vs Speedy

[einar]

Heh, I don't really know you as a poster, so I can't say one way or the other, but many do like to get on their high horse when they see people criticising the manger. I find it a bit cringeworthy personally.

My opinion is that Rafa has had a decent amount to reshape his squad with. The fact that he can't work with certain players or change his philosophy to work with what he's got *for now*, are not excuses. If you desperately want a player who you see as a KEY part of your plans for the next few years, is it not worth sacrificing in the short-term to gain in the long-term? The result of not doing so is wasting all your money on stopgaps (again) and then finding yourself in the same situation of not being able to afford what you need next summer. Luckily for Rafa (and us), we got investment in, which will bail us out.

That is IMO very hard for us to say.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Heh, I don't really know you as a poster, so I can't say one way or the other, but many do like to get on their high horse when they see people criticising the manger. I find it a bit cringeworthy personally.

My opinion is that Rafa has had a decent amount to reshape his squad with. The fact that he can't work with certain players or change his philosophy to work with what he's got *for now*, are not excuses. If you desperately want a player who you see as a KEY part of your plans for the next few years, is it not worth sacrificing in the short-term to gain in the long-term? The result of not doing so is wasting all your money on stopgaps (again) and then finding yourself in the same situation of not being able to afford what you need next summer.

He's spent £94m since he's been here, and our league performance hasn't improved from the Houllier era.

Those are facts.

Criticising him with pure speculation serves no purpose.

[einar]

He's spent £94m since he's been here, and our league performance hasn't improved from the Houllier era.

Those are facts.

Criticising him with pure speculation serves no purpose.

Our point tally in the league has.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Our point tally in the league has.

Still no nearer the title.

[keniget]

Well, it all depends on how you look at it, in my opinion.

If you trust in Rafa as a manager, then you'll no doubt trust in his first choice targets. Rafa was desperate to get Alves, which obviously means he was to be a part of Rafa's vision for Liverpool. So essentially, we're discussing the managers ability to realize his vision within the setup he's in.

I said in the summer that it was a mistake to get Bellamy and Pennant over someone who could claim to be an out and out first choice player. I like Bellamy and now that we have him, I'd like him to stay, but a year on and 14M spent, you'd still say we need a first choice RW and a first choice ST to play alongside Kuyt. Luckily the investment has finally come through, so we might have some chance of securing these players finally. Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market and I think Rafa has made more than a few in his time here.

[Harv]

Heh, so everyone is essentially just sitting on the fence. How very interesting.

"Houller was right not to get C.Ronaldo for 4M. Who knows how he'd have turned out for us. He might have broken his leg, never played again etc."

we had agreed a deal for £6m for him, but then Utd came in the next day and offered £12m for him.

cant blame Houllier or the board for that one really. They could have got in a bidding war with Utd, but we had just signed Kewell, so we didnt need to spend that sort of money on a winger.

In hindsight we should of.....but back then i would of been pissed if we spent that much on a 19 year old Portuguese fairy. He had no more signs of promise than Gonzalez did while he was in Spain. Granted he has become the best player in the land, but no one woud have predicted that.

[keniget]

Granted he has become the best player in the land, but no one woud have predicted that.

Well, Fergie obviously had faith.

Rafa obviously has faith in Alves abilities, but he couldn't reconcile it with his lack of faith in other areas.

[Harv]

Still no nearer the title.

well thats been made a tad harder now that Chelski have entered the fold.

We have caught Arsenal, and we had caught Utd last season.

[einar]

Still no nearer the title.

That is true.

But is it not a bit to simple to only look at what Rafa has spent.
Surely there are other things to consider, like time in charge, revenue from the stadium and other scourses. What has come through the ranks.

Wenger has had more money through the years and much more time.
Chelsea is Chelsea.
Alex has had much more time, much more money, and far more good players from their youth teams.

94m is a lot of money but he had to change almost the whole team.
We dont have that many players left from Houllier.

[einar]

Well, Fergie obviously had faith.

Rafa obviously has faith in Alves abilities, but he couldn't reconcile it with his lack of faith in other areas.

Fergie could afford to have faith.

[keniget]

Fergie could afford to have faith.

Oh? Why is that?

We were all laughing at Utd's midfield last season and foaming at the mouth at the possibility of them going down the ****ter, but that hasn't quite happened, has it?

He tried to get Hargreaves in the summer, but failed. Did he then go out and buy 3 ****ty squad players? Nope. He settled with what he's got and Carrick and now this summer, he can afford to go back again and try and get his No.1 target.

[Harv]

Well, Fergie obviously had faith.

Rafa obviously has faith in Alves abilities, but he couldn't reconcile it with his lack of faith in other areas.

the kid had talent that for certain. He was the best player at the U19 championships by some distance.

but i dont think even Fergie could have seen him becoming the player he is now.

If we have the funds this summer we will go again for Alves. I just hope we dont have to spend all our budget to get him. We need a few players this summer. A top notch striker, a top notch winger and someone who can deliver a good corner and set piece.

If it was me and i had the funds i would be after Huntelaar, Alves and Bale. then play a wingback formation, letting SG play centrally behind the strikers.

[keniget]

I'm not even trying to suggest that Alves is the right man for us. I'm just saying that the manager should have faith in his first choice targets and not compromise his chances of getting them in order to pad out the squad with "possibilities".

This summer, we have a strong squad from the outset, so I expect to see the bulk of our transfer kitty spent on two or three out and out first team players. Hopefully Rafa won't disappoint.

[einar]

Oh? Why is that?

We were all laughing at Utd's midfield last season and foaming at the mouth at the possibility of them going down the ****ter, but that hasn't quite happened, has it?

He tried to get Hargreaves in the summer, but failed. Did he then go out and buy 3 ****ty squad players? Nope. He settled with what he's got and Carrick and now this summer, he can afford to go back again and try and get his No.1 target.

1. Because he manages ManU
2. No it has not because the players he had have done well.
3. What he had was much better then what Rafa had because he has had more money through the years. ( And because he is a good manager. I´m not saying Rafa is above criticism )

[einar]

I'm not even trying to suggest that Alves is the right man for us. I'm just saying that the manager should have faith in his first choice targets and not compromise his chances of getting them in order to pad out the squad with "possibilities".

This summer, we have a strong squad from the outset, so I expect to see the bulk of our transfer kitty spent on two or three out and out first team players. Hopefully Rafa won't disappoint.

That was not the case last summer though.