Kuyt

[Pippo]

To answer the initial question, I seem to remember that the West Ham game away was going absolutely nowhere until Kuyt knocked in a scorcher from 25 yards.

He has impressed me this season, started very well, but he had a lull straight after christmas and struggled to get his form back. I can see him gaining from the experience and coming back stronger next season.

If we can pick up a pacier striker to link up the midfield ie Torres, then I reckon Kuyt will have a hell of a lot more success playing on the last man and getting in the box, rather than playing as a fifth midfielder.

[Abro100]

Yeh he does but im just pointing out the two extremes, i go to all the home games and kuyt works very hard, he does stuff whay goes un noticed, so for example if gerrard is running throuigh the centre he runs int he channel out wide which drags a centre back with him an takes the eye of the wing back.
He is the only one who chases down the keeper, he always brings other people into play. He does have excellent link up play. He isnt being used as a out and out goal scorer, the opposition will hate playing against him because of the countless running he does all game, you dont know how many goals he has helped because of tiring out of defenders.

[Joe Le Toff]

I don't understand for a second why Kuyt was/is being used as a link-man. He is almost completely bereft of skill and technical ability, and as for his first-touch...

I have reservations about Kuyt as well, true he played very deep this season which i assume was under the instructions of the manager, and its clear he is no link man. I also dont see what many are saying on here that he will be our goalscorer if he is pushed further forward, his finishing strikes me as a little Cisse-esque, his movement is nothing special, not much about him in the air.

Its his first season in fairness, hes scored a few goals and though by no means has he been woeful, i would expect to see significant improvement from him next season otherwise i think he should be moved on.

[Joe Le Toff]

Very harsh in my opinion. Like most others have said, a new team and a new country also not really playing as an out and out striker . He showed glimpses and I think he can make the grade. Not a bad return of goals all things considered.

If we do sign Torres then I think we will se him pushed forward and really only then can we see if he can really cut it.

Torres isnt a link man either. We shouldnt be using a link man if we're playing 2 strikers in a 4-4-2. Midfielders should be getting forward to support the front 2 yes, but not a link man. Link men are played in 4-5-1 to support the lone striker and i dont see Torres or Kuyt in that role.
Trouble with Dirk is that even when he does play up front on his own he still drops far too deep and leaves us with no target to hit up there.

[Ritchi3]

Why do you knock Kuyt for his goal scoring record, then claim Berbatov is better, even though they both scored around the same number of goals this season?

[tomasjj]

Yeh he does but im just pointing out the two extremes, i go to all the home games and kuyt works very hard, he does stuff whay goes un noticed, so for example if gerrard is running throuigh the centre he runs int he channel out wide which drags a centre back with him an takes the eye of the wing back.
He is the only one who chases down the keeper, he always brings other people into play. He does have excellent link up play. He isnt being used as a out and out goal scorer, the opposition will hate playing against him because of the countless running he does all game, you dont know how many goals he has helped because of tiring out of defenders.

Agreed.
Good point.

[dww]

I don't understand for a second why Kuyt was/is being used as a link-man. He is almost completely bereft of skill and technical ability, and as for his first-touch...

I think you are slightly unfair on Kuyt. I can see where you are coming from about his first touch at times but I have a theory about this. Basically he seems to want to put the ball away from his body so he can leather it at goal - my suspicion being that in the more sedate Dutch league this was a fine tactic and got him a lot of goals. He was actually doing okay with it in the PL when played high up the pitch for us. When he played deeper this instint looks like the worlds worst idea. He seemed to tone it down later in the season.

The reason he was sued in the link man role was obviusly his awareness of players running off him. I think the hope was that this would bring the wide men and Gerrard when central more into the game and give us more attacking threats. As it happened none of the wide men seemed particularly got at or interested in getting in on chest offs from the front man (I'll make the occasional exception for Riise).

I predict Kuyt will make a big step forward this season. He seems an intelligent lad and I think that Rafa will make him a more flexible player. I also think he would benefit from new signings on the wing and/or the return of Garcia and Kewell to full fitness.

[Neil Young]

I think you are slightly unfair on Kuyt. I can see where you are coming from about his first touch at times but I have a theory about this. Basically he seems to want to put the ball away from his body so he can leather it at goal - my suspicion being that in the more sedate Dutch league this was a fine tactic and got him a lot of goals. He was actually doing okay with it in the PL when played high up the pitch for us. When he played deeper this instint looks like the worlds worst idea. He seemed to tone it down later in the season.

The reason he was sued in the link man role was obviusly his awareness of players running off him. I think the hope was that this would bring the wide men and Gerrard when central more into the game and give us more attacking threats. As it happened none of the wide men seemed particularly got at or interested in getting in on chest offs from the front man (I'll make the occasional exception for Riise).

I predict Kuyt will make a big step forward this season. He seems an intelligent lad and I think that Rafa will make him a more flexible player. I also think he would benefit from new signings on the wing and/or the return of Garcia and Kewell to full fitness.

'kin right.

I hadn't seen all that but then, like others I fear, I tend to see a few things and then fix a picture in my head of a player's abilities. It's good someone round here knows what he's talking about for the benefit of us football dullards.

[dww]

'kin right.

I hadn't seen all that but then, like others I fear, I tend to see a few things and then fix a picture in my head of a player's abilities. It's good someone round here knows what he's talking about for the benefit of us football dullards.

Are you trying to make up for calling me a nerd yesterday

[Neil Young]

Are you trying to make up for calling me a nerd yesterday

Sorry about that. It was just a joke.

No. I just think your analysis is interesting and deeper than most of us can manage. For instance, I've noticed Kuyt's awareness, Shaggy focuses on his first touch - you brought both points into your analysis.

[Howard_lfc]

So far Shaggy's off my xmas card list - and King Kenny came perilously close as well.

As usual - the thread was rescued by Neil Young using all of his (many) years experience to state a good case for Dirk.

[Pacman]

No chance Dirk has won me over without a shadow of a doubt. His work rate, his attitude, he can score goals I think his 1st season he has done just fine. I think people got carried away when he played really well his first couple of games. He needed time to adapted like anyone does he'll be even better next season.

[Shaggy]

So far Shaggy's off my xmas card list - and King Kenny came perilously close as well.

As usual - the thread was rescued by Neil Young using all of his (many) years experience to state a good case for Dirk.

Haha, is ickle Dirky Wirky your favouwite, Les?

Dave made a good point about Kuyt knocking the ball from out of his feet in a bid to get a shot on goal, but patently that isn't always the case. He struggles to control any sort of pass that is fired at him - the best players fizz many of their passes at pace; Gerrard does it a lot as does Xabi, and by the same token the best players are expected to be able to trap a pass that is fired at them. Kuyt hasn't shown he can do this - his touch is brutal, whichever way you look at it.

[dww]

Sorry about that. It was just a joke.

No. I just think your analysis is interesting and deeper than most of us can manage. For instance, I've noticed Kuyt's awareness, Shaggy focuses on his first touch - you brought both points into your analysis.

I wasn't upset by it. I just like to use it to make you feel bad. I'm evil like that.

[dww]

Haha, is ickle Dirky Wirky your favouwite, Les?

Dave made a good point about Kuyt knocking the ball from out of his feet in a bid to get a shot on goal, but patently that isn't always the case. He struggles to control any sort of pass that is fired at him - the best players fizz many of their passes at pace; Gerrard does it a lot as does Xabi, and by the same token the best players are expected to be able to trap a pass that is fired at them. Kuyt hasn't shown he can do this - his touch is brutal, whichever way you look at it.

I see your point about his touch but I don't think it is nearly as bad as you make out. It is fair to say that it is reasonable for anyone to have doubts about his ability to step up to the level needed to challenge for the league.

The point about Xabi and Gerrard is a particular problem. The pair fo them ping some lovely looking passes about and often at great speed but I sometimes have my doubts about how easy they would be for anyone but Zidane to control. Kuyt does need to find a way to do it though or he will be replaced as those two players are one of the great strengths of our squad.