The paper that cannot be mentioned

[Dhav]

Yup, they weren't the only ones. However, they went a lot further with their unfounded allegations. Other newspapers didn't print the worst of what they said. Also, other newspapers quickly issued unreserved apologies. They have yet to do that, 18 years on.



Yes, he said that quite recently, on the BBC's Question Time programme, if I remember rightly. Actually, it may not have been on there. He was certainly reported to have said that at a private lunch some time before the programme.

Thanks for clarifiying that re the other papers and their apologies. From what I understand, it's the headline in particular ("The Truth") which scousers took particular offence to.

To me their hollow apology which read more as self-justification is reason enough to boycott the rag.

[Konstro]

Probably no different to the misinformation people hear about Poles in the UK and generate here in Germany. Whether it's papers, newcasts or people, the propaganda spreads and does the damage intended.

Misinformation in first place made me Liverpool supporter. I was only 9 years old and watching Heysel game. Polish commentators were blaming Liverpool fans all the way. Because my father since I started to walk was telling me that communists always lie I concluded that true is somwhere else so against will of comunist ****s I started to support LFC.

But it`s very true that media all over the world make up story every day to fill the space. Everyone wit abillity to think independently knows it. That`s why internet as a tool gives us chance to put record straight.

[Farside]

He's not oblivious, it's obvious he's aware of it but as a non-scouser he doesn't share the strength of feeling towards the issue as a scouser does. Can you really blame him for that?

I mean I might have a resentment towards Turks for everything my family went through in the 70's in Cyprus, (uncle missing, whereabouts still unknown, female relatives raped etc) but do you feel empathy towards the way I feel, or do you consider me an irrational racist who should just let go?

So what do you suggest? We draw a line in the sand and go, ok the s** was wrong but we should move on.

It is sad that Liverpool fans don't get it!

YNWA 96

[Kilteragh]

Misinformation in first place made me Liverpool supporter. I was only 9 years old and watching Heysel game. Polish commentators were blaming Liverpool fans all the way. Because my father since I started to walk was telling me that communists always lie I concluded that true is somwhere else so against will of comunist ****s I started to support LFC.

But it`s very true that media all over the world make up story every day to fill the space. Everyone wit abillity to think independently knows it. That`s why internet as a tool gives us chance to put record straight.

Interesting.

Also the point about the internet is a good one. There are so many things that we would only have one perspective (possibly biased media) on without it.

[Konstro]

That's one hell of a user name matey

Must be a bitch phoning up a call centre & having to spell that one

Does it mean anything?

This comes from polish comedy. Resistance member got caught by Gestapo and asked about his name gave them : Grzegorz Brzeczyszczykiewicz . Of course Nazi couldn`t spell it. Since that very often polish people try foreigners to say that or use it just to show how crazy polish language can be.

[Dhav]

So what do you suggest? We draw a line in the sand and go, ok the s** was wrong but we should move on.

It is sad that Liverpool fans don't get it!

YNWA 96

No, I dont suggest we draw a line in the sand and just move on. Far from it. But at least show a fellow Red some common courtesy before biting his head off.

Some of the vitriol spouted towards Fredo is out of line IMO.

[lfc_michael]

My dentist is an Asian Liverpool fan, he studied at Liverpool University for 5 years or however long dentists go to university for. I was lying back in the chair in his surgery looking up and there were the back pages of The Sun, from the day after Istanbul plastered all over the ceiling. And this is a guy who lived in Liverpool for 5 years FFS.

Yes, I agree. There's a definite need for education. People can't be expected just to know. I studied at Liverpool myself (not dentistry!), but that's not how I became aware of the boycott. It's quite possible, studying at university, that you won't have any significant contact with locals. Or else you might not fully realise the depth of feeling. A few informative articles, explaining what they said and why LFC fans continue to boycott it, would go a long way. On the other hand, what did he think Truth Day was all about?

[Farside]

No, I dont suggest we draw a line in the sand and just move on. Far from it. But at least show a fellow Red some common courtesy before biting his head off.

Some of the vitriol spouted towards Fredo is out of line IMO.

I think people are getting "fellow Red" mixed up with "friend" so they the defend him.

[Dhav]

Yes, I agree. There's a definite need for education. People can't be expected just to know. I studied at Liverpool myself (not dentistry!), but that's not how I became aware of the boycott. It's quite possible, studying at university, that you won't have any significant contact with locals. Or else you might not fully realise the depth of feeling. A few informative articles, explaining what they said and why LFC fans continue to boycott it, would go a long way. On the other hand, what did he think Truth Day was all about?

Mate I was there on Truth Day with a few others, and I heard a teenager singing Justice for the 96 throughout those whole 6 minutes, as passionately as anyone else in that stadium, and then afterwards turned round and asked "who are the 96?"

But at least now he knows.

[lfc_michael]

Mate I was there on Truth Day with a few others, and I heard a teenager singing Justice for the 96 throughout those whole 6 minutes, as passionately as anyone else in that stadium, and then afterwards turned round and asked "who are the 96?"

But at least now he knows.

Yeah, I was there myself. It was an intensely emotional evening for everyone. But millions watched on TV and those who were unaware before of the depth of feeling of Scousers and match-going Reds must have realised afterwards. That's my point.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I think people are getting "fellow Red" mixed up with "friend" so they the defend him.

So if the fan base isn't connected in the same way, then why bother trying to educate them by sticking up for them? :whatever:

[Farside]

So if the fan base isn't connected in the same way, then why bother trying to educate them by sticking up for them? :whatever:

This is one of his quotes

"IMO we should move on now. Some younger LFC fans wouldn't be able to know instantly what happened at that time.

I repeat, we should move on."

So clearly he is not into being educated!

[Dhav]

Yeah, I was there myself. It was an intensely emotional evening for everyone. But millions watched on TV and those who were unaware before of the depth of feeling of Scousers and match-going Reds must have realised afterwards. That's my point.

Exactly, so let's cut some people some slack before we start jumping down their throats.

This is a real emotional issue, but people shouting vitriol at fellow fans doesn't seem to be the best way to educate other fans or indeed to highlight this issue.

People jumped on Fredo without giving him a fair chance to clarify or explain his comments.

Bang out of order IMO.

[lfc_michael]

I agree in general that it's unfair to jump on someone who's unaware of the boycott or of exactly what was said in 1989, but the quotes (which I've now seen) weren't too good. Telling people to 'move on' is hardly tactful.

[Helios Creed]

Absolutely. We need to cut Fredo some slack. Some of the reaction he's had on here has been the real disgrace IMO.

My dentist is an Asian Liverpool fan, he studied at Liverpool University for 5 years or however long dentists go to university for. I was lying back in the chair in his surgery looking up and there were the back pages of The Sun, from the day after Istanbul plastered all over the ceiling. And this is a guy who lived in Liverpool for 5 years FFS.

I suppose possibly it never came up even in 5 years? Some people are much more conscious of it than other people and as you say, in Fredo's case, it may not mean as much to someone who may not even know what The Scum is. On KT someone had a go at an Aussie Red about it and he had 20,000 posts and spent hours putting together excellent video montages of Fowler etc. We don't buy it and we educate others why we don't, but can we stop trying to out-do each other?