english players at LFC

[Rafa Shankly]

Ok - so you agree that all the foreign imports have not improved our national side then? If so - you're agreeing with me!

i think the point is that the foriegn players have improved the english game rather than the english players.
english players are no better or worse now than they were before the influx of foriegners,why should they be?

in fact id say that england have a squad as good as ayones in the world,so how have foriegners affected the national team and the growth of young english talent?

[sonsofthedesert]

doesn't work like that in this country, shorty. at least not in all companies. there has to be a certain amount of ethnic minorities/disbaleds (ie midgets...) employed, regardless of whether there is a more suitable white person available for the job. The sentiment is good but the reality is craziness.

This is bollocks stirred up by the Daily Mail and the Tories, this would be illegal to enact. There was discussions of trying this for the police but only the police but it can't happen as equal opertunity laws in this country would have to be torn up.

[sonsofthedesert]

Conclusion: success at any club is down to selecting a coach that is able to spot and use the talent available for the funds that are available, and it has very little to do with nationality.

The thought that goes through my mind is that if there was someone like Rafa running the national team then England would perform much better. Thereal problem we have as a nation is the wrong Coaches are given the jobs.

[der_Fuchs]

Too true: I think the main reason England will never win the world cup is because the FA would rather continue to fail than appoint a manager that they think they cannot control, but like most of you I'm past caring.

As far as Liverpool are concerned, given the low numbers of real talent that come through, the importance of English players is that we can pick them up cheaply when very young, develop them through the youth team, and even if not good enough to make our first team we can still sell them on to mitigate the costs of bringing in first team players that will win trophies for us.

[sonsofthedesert]

Too true: I think the main reason England will never win the world cup is because the FA would rather continue to fail than appoint a manager that they think they cannot control, but like most of you I'm past caring.

As far as Liverpool are concerned, given the low numbers of real talent that come through, the importance of English players is that we can pick them up cheaply when very young, develop them through the youth team, and even if not good enough to make our first team we can still sell them on to mitigate the costs of bringing in first team players that will win trophies for us.

I think it is obv that Rafa is planning on using the Wenger philosiphy of trying to make a profit from the acadamy, most prob why G&H like his plans so much.

[Sir Bob]

i couldn't give 2 hoots about England if i'm honest and the thought of England actually winning something is not a prospect I'd relish. The thought of all the part time footie fans, faces painted in the flag of St George, proclaiming lampard or Beckham as the greatest player ever would be too much. Imagine if we'd won something whilst beckham was captain under svennnis. it would have been Sir Becks & Sir Sven. Bloody hell fire!!!

Having said all that I would like to see more English and British players at LFC. we are after all a British club and whilst many foreign players do add to the game, many don't.
On top of that i believe we need British players to win the title. Utd and chelsea both have a core of British players. look at all our best players in recent years, Fowler, SG, Owen, Carra, McManaman, all English. In fact we've never had a really top notch foreign player. Torres may become that but are best foreign player has been Hyppia. As good as Sami is, he's not had the influence of our home grown talent

So my message is, to succeed in the league, a British backbone is essential.

[RedReet]

i couldn't give 2 hoots about England if i'm honest and the thought of England actually winning something is not a prospect I'd relish. The thought of all the part time footie fans, faces painted in the flag of St George, proclaiming lampard or Beckham as the greatest player ever would be too much. Imagine if we'd won something whilst beckham was captain under svennnis. it would have been Sir Becks & Sir Sven. Bloody hell fire!!!

Having said all that I would like to see more English and British players at LFC. we are after all a British club and whilst many foreign players do add to the game, many don't.
On top of that i believe we need British players to win the title. Utd and chelsea both have a core of British players. look at all our best players in recent years, Fowler, SG, Owen, Carra, McManaman, all English. In fact we've never had a really top notch foreign player. Torres may become that but are best foreign player has been Hyppia. As good as Sami is, he's not had the influence of our home grown talent

So my message is, to succeed in the league, a British backbone is essential.

Sami has been a hell of a lot more influential so far than Jamie. Him and Henchoz instantly turned one of the worst defences in the premiership into one of the best. Carra just added to that.

And what about Didi???

[peekay]

70% of the players in Serie 'A' are Italian - and they've just won the world cup. That blows your arguement out of the water.

The italians import players also - but not all the ****ing dross like we do. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee - this is our national game and we're strangling ourselves.

I guess part of the reason why Italy dont import foreign players like we do is that Italian talent is not overpriced as ours. Juve paid around 7.5 million pounds for Iaquinta - a player proven in the serie A and who started 5 out of 7 world cup matches. We had to pay a similar amount for a striker who had a very good strike rate for a relegated team for half a season.

Another reason is that italy had one of the most respected football manager in the world at the helm. Lippi is one of the top 3 coaches in Italy. Whereas I dont think teams which come around 8-11 would think twice about hiring Mclaren. Outside of top 4, Newcastle,Spurs,Blackburn,Everton, Portsmouth and Aston Villa wouldnt want to replace their current managers with Mclaren.
That shows the difference in quality.

Just to add to Shaggy Alonso's example

Danny Higginbotham ( 3 million )

Eboue,Toure,Djourou,Clichy ( < 2 million)

[publiusscipio]

Gerrard, Owen, Fowler, McManman etc would have come through in any generation because they were good enough. Yes, the academy improved them and rounded their game etc but the raw talent was there from the age of 8/9/10. If Gerrard came through now he'd get in regardless of whether Geraldo and Gerardinho were in the same squad.

To be honest I think that the whole tv/playstation/dvd/ipod flooding of kids time means they are playing less & less sports; more and more are sitting in & not getting into teams/sports etc. Also the whole "age" of people "going out" has changed - kids nowadays are heading out 3-4 years younger than previously so they are being seduced into that lifestyle choice earlier than previous generations.

It's seen as "cool" to get ****-faced and blown as opposed to making the local team now. Youth culture has changed here and that is filtering through as the years roll by.

Take US sports; the vast majority of pro-footballers in the US (American Football that is) are from poorer backgrounds; sports are their outlet, a way to progress, a way to get out of where they are; this gives them a hunger than a lot of "middle" america does not possess. Yes, that is a generalisation but it is in the main true. The same can be said of the volumes of players now coming across all leagues from Africa. Their talent at 8, 9, 10 is the same but in a lot of cases their hunger is greater; their personal demands are less; their workrate is higher; why? again, culture and background have to be large considerations in this.

To finalise ..... take Owen; he was a hugely talented youngster; hungry for the game; hungry to succeed; hungry to learn; hungry to be the best; if he just had the talent and none of the above - he wouldn't have made the grade. He focused on what he wanted and worked his life around that - too many of this generation find that life gives them enough without having to have that focus, that determination, that drive. The ones that maintain focus like Owen; Gerrard etc will make the grade regardless of their country of origin - the rest will fall off blaming someone else or something else.

The English FA have more stuctures in place now than ever before; have more qualified coaches than ever before - this is not the problem.

The problem (if it is indeed that) IMHO is that society has changed, blaming "the foreigners" is the new lazy way to make ourselves feel better about what we've let happen to our own society.

Nothing to add to your post but I thought it warranted an acknowledgement. I like many of the points you make.

[Venton]

I think we'd have a damn sight better chance of doing something with the national team if we had more english players playing in the prem. It stands to reason doesn't it? What with more experienced players to chose from etc.

Look at the fuss over SG at the moment. He's ONE player FFS and they want him to have an injection in order to play. Where's the strength in depth within our game to replace him?

I'm probably coming over as an Anglophile in these posts but the fact is I couldn't give a ****e about England at the moment! I hope Israel and Russia stuff them so we can get rid of McLaren and start again without missing out on a World Cup.

It's nothing to do with imports FFS. It's about the quality of English players. We don't coach them right for international football from the start - just for the championship and premiership. If our youngsters were better than theirs we would play them and pay for them. But they are not.

My 11 year old nephew plays down in Kent and all they are taught is kick and rush. No ball skills at all. No control. No skill. No awareness either. It's a miracle we get anywhere.

We have a lot of English strikers playing in the premiership and not many of them have a hope in hell at international level. The idea that foreign players squeeze out everyone except owen, johnson and heskey is hilarious.

We need to prepare our youngsters with the skills they need rather than blaming foreigners.

[twistnkuyt]

It's nothing to do with imports FFS. It's about the quality of English players. We don't coach them right for international football from the start - just for the championship and premiership. If our youngsters were better than theirs we would play them and pay for them. But they are not.

My 11 year old nephew plays down in Kent and all they are taught is kick and rush. No ball skills at all. No control. No skill. No awareness either. It's a miracle we get anywhere.

We have a lot of English strikers playing in the premiership and not many of them have a hope in hell at international level. The idea that foreign players squeeze out everyone except owen, johnson and heskey is hilarious.

We need to prepare our youngsters with the skills they need rather than blaming foreigners.

Agree with that. My 12 year old lad plays for a local team and when he is on his own he likes to practice skills. If he tries this in a match and it doesn't come off then the coach has a word.

I think a lot of it is down to the importance that is put on winning at a young age. As much as I like to see my lads team win I get just as much enjoyment out of watching them play good football. The kids should be encouraged to try new things especially in games as no matter how often they try a turn or whatever on their own it's not the same as in a game situation when you're trying to beat your man.

[Johnny]

I played in the same school team as Neil Lennon.He was our 4th best player.
The three other players went to England,were given too much spending money in new environments,far away from their parents and all arrived home within a yr with drink/discipline problems.Only Neil Lennon made it.

[spider-neil]

england's problems are down to **** management it really is a simple as that, a good manager will make the most our of poor/average personnel (rafa CL win)

owen
rooney
gerrard
lampard
j cole
SWP
a cole
rio
m richards

plus others to call on.
the problem england get no where is the tactics simple as they, they play like they've never seen each other and treat the ball like a hot potato.
they should have gone for a techinal manager who would have got them playing in he manner that befits their talent, gus hiddink.
blaming the foreign legion is a little silly the best players at liverpool, manu, chelsea are english. make no mistake is mcclueless was in charge of liverpool even with the squad we currently have he'd manged them into the ground.

[carlton]

It's nothing to do with imports FFS. It's about the quality of English players. We don't coach them right for international football from the start - just for the championship and premiership. If our youngsters were better than theirs we would play them and pay for them. But they are not.

My 11 year old nephew plays down in Kent and all they are taught is kick and rush. No ball skills at all. No control. No skill. No awareness either. It's a miracle we get anywhere.

We have a lot of English strikers playing in the premiership and not many of them have a hope in hell at international level. The idea that foreign players squeeze out everyone except owen, johnson and heskey is hilarious.

We need to prepare our youngsters with the skills they need rather than blaming foreigners.

Pls excure my ignorance but how many games do the Academy and Reserves play each season and how do the talent identification procedures work for youngsters under 15 in the UK ?

[Howard_lfc]

My 11 year old nephew plays down in Kent and all they are taught is kick and rush. No ball skills at all. No control. No skill. No awareness either. It's a miracle we get anywhere.

Agree with that. My 12 year old lad plays for a local team and when he is on his own he likes to practice skills. If he tries this in a match and it doesn't come off then the coach has a word.

Jesus wept.
If you want to back up your theories then please try and do better than telling us about your nephew in Kent and your 12 year old son.

What that has to do about anything is beyond me.