The Jewish Day of Atonement 1 Rafa 0

[thesilverfoxlfc]

Yeah but it hardly for religious reasons with most of them

Very Good point Daniel

[Joe King]

Thought you were muslim, do you have original sin as well?

Nope

[Red_hot]

Yeah but it hardly for religious reasons with most of them

It's not really the point though is it? It's still part of our religious calender same as this was part of the Jewish calender. Therefore, if you don't want to work on that day then you shouldn't have to.

[Guest]

well yes.

if the club doesn't want him to fast and he wants to

they can sack him.

and vice versa



But they won't becasue they not idiots like you

Well i'd tell you to **** off and let your post count remain the same.

I really hope that was a joke, cos if not that's one of the most moronic things I've ever read on here. Tell you what, lets rearrange Christmas, when do you fancy having it Fredo?

Tell that to all people working at Christmas and who needs to because they have no other choice as they need to feed their families.

NO, people who talk bollox, make **** up and refuse to see the other side of the argument are idiots/reptiles of the mind etc.

Oh don't be stupid. It's obvious that I am trying to be as objective as possible if you look at my posts. It's fellas such as yourself and some others (see above) who are slagging off people without trying to offer a balanced argument themselves.

[Guest]

It's not really the point though is it? It's still part of our religious calender same as this was part of the Jewish calender. Therefore, if you don't want to work on that day then you shouldn't have to.

What if your employer needs you in case of an emergency or that you need to work to round off your end of months debts ? Is religion still compulsory ?

[The Glove]

What if your employer needs you in case of an emergency or that you need to work to round off your end of months debts ? Is religion still compulsory ?

Is Yossi in need of working to round off his monthly debt? Was it an emergency that he played on Saturday? The answer is no. Case closed.

Fact is, if people are religious then their beliefs are to be respected. If not, then the employer will find themselves on the wrong end of an employment tribunal.

[alunevans]

Is Yossi in need of working to round off his monthly debt? Was it an emergency that he played on Saturday? The answer is no. Case closed.

Fact is, if people are religious then their beliefs are to be respected. If not, then the employer will find themselves on the wrong end of an employment tribunal.

Scenario

What about if Stevie G, Carra, Torres and Agger were all deeply committed and pretty fundamentalist Christians.

Its the final Sunday of the season. We're top of the league on goal difference. Our last fixture is away to Man U. We're level on points with them. They win, they win the league. Anything else and we get our first league win since 1990.

Stevie, Carra, Torres and Agger say they won't play on the sabbath.

How do we feel about this?

[sean_lfc]

Scenario

What about if Stevie G, Carra, Torres and Agger were all deeply committed and pretty fundamentalist Christians.

Its the final Sunday of the season. We're top of the league on goal difference. Our last fixture is away to Man U. We're level on points with them. They win, they win the league. Anything else and we get our first league win since 1990.

Stevie, Carra, Torres and Agger say they won't play on the sabbath.

How do we feel about this?

I think this whole argument has been blown completely out of proportion. Your scenario is too fallible out of the simple reason that it is far too crass.

You're naming 4 players who are considered first-teamers and vital cogs to our machine. You're also naming the most crass example, ie. Sunday/ManU/Level on points/etc.

The reaction you are expecting (from the ones who aren't opposing Yossi's absence due to religious reasons) is that they say 'It's their religion, they should have the choice'. The reaction you would most likely get (due to the exaggerated and very crass scenario) is 'Aw well ****it, they'd just have to play, can't let the Mancs beat us'.

Basically you're trying to break the columns of morale and ethics that people have come out with on here by mentioning a hypothetical and totally unrealistic scenario - and by bringing the Mancs into play, which will obviously play with people's conscience.

I would assume that after you got several answers you could then claim 'Well, I told you so'.

But this is very unreasonable.

Fact of the matter is, all the players you mentioned aren't fundamental Christians and very few high-profile players seem to be in conflict with the club/games due to their beliefs.

Yossi is a squad player, he's just one player. We have ample cover, and even should we have played the Mancs, his non-inclusion probably would not have rocked the boat.

We played Birmingham.
The players didn't seem to turn up.
B'ham parked the bus infront of goal.
We couldn't deal with it.
We will work harder.
The Jewish Day of Rest or whatever it was is over.

I doubt this scenario will become a routine thing.

I just don't see any justification for such a lengthy thread on such a minute and miniscule 'problem', it seems everyone's giving it a go. I dunno, whatever

[The Glove]

Scenario

What about if Stevie G, Carra, Torres and Agger were all deeply committed and pretty fundamentalist Christians.

Its the final Sunday of the season. We're top of the league on goal difference. Our last fixture is away to Man U. We're level on points with them. They win, they win the league. Anything else and we get our first league win since 1990.

Stevie, Carra, Torres and Agger say they won't play on the sabbath.

How do we feel about this?

**** all we can do. If they are deeply religious (which so far they havent proven to be) then what can we do? They refuse to play, the club kicks off but if they have the proof they are that religious the club loses in court. Law sides with religion as much as we might not like it. To us non religious types we find it hard to believe they would do such a thing but to believers its their thing and if thats thier choice then we shouldnt force them.

But lets say they play against their will and put in a shocking performance, who is to blame? The player for being forced to do soemthing they dont want to or the club for forcing them to do it.

[Red_hot]

I think this whole argument has been blown completely out of proportion. Your scenario is too fallible out of the simple reason that it is far too crass.

You're naming 4 players who are considered first-teamers and vital cogs to our machine. You're also naming the most crass example, ie. Sunday/ManU/Level on points/etc.

The reaction you are expecting (from the ones who aren't opposing Yossi's absence due to religious reasons) is that they say 'It's their religion, they should have the choice'. The reaction you would most likely get (due to the exaggerated and very crass scenario) is 'Aw well ****it, they'd just have to play, can't let the Mancs beat us'.

Basically you're trying to break the columns of morale and ethics that people have come out with on here by mentioning a hypothetical and totally unrealistic scenario - and by bringing the Mancs into play, which will obviously play with people's conscience.

I would assume that after you got several answers you could then claim 'Well, I told you so'.

But this is very unreasonable.

Fact of the matter is, all the players you mentioned aren't fundamental Christians and very few high-profile players seem to be in conflict with the club/games due to their beliefs.

Yossi is a squad player, he's just one player. We have ample cover, and even should we have played the Mancs, his non-inclusion probably would not have rocked the boat.

We played Birmingham.
The players didn't seem to turn up.
B'ham parked the bus infront of goal.
We couldn't deal with it.
We will work harder.
The Jewish Day of Rest or whatever it was is over.

I doubt this scenario will become a routine thing.

I just don't see any justification for such a lengthy thread on such a minute and miniscule 'problem', it seems everyone's giving it a go. I dunno, whatever

Spot on.

[Neil Young]

Scenario

What about if Stevie G, Carra, Torres and Agger were all deeply committed and pretty fundamentalist Christians.

Its the final Sunday of the season. We're top of the league on goal difference. Our last fixture is away to Man U. We're level on points with them. They win, they win the league. Anything else and we get our first league win since 1990.

Stevie, Carra, Torres and Agger say they won't play on the sabbath.

How do we feel about this?

I feel hypothetical scenarios like this don't help anything.

[fowlen]

I honestly believe that many people are missing the point of this thread.

Yom Kippur (The Day of Atonement) is an incredibly religious day. As i said once before it is one day that almost every Jew around the world (the mere c14.5million of us) observes the day and repents. if one is in full health they will fast - no quesions asked!

Trust me, after a day with no food or water you are in no position to perform at your peak.

The argument of other religions and Sunday being a Christian day has no merit. For us Jews, the sabbath is every Saturday. For the more religious Jews, this day is all about G-d and family, and they observe it (you are not meant to drive, write, turn on or off any electrical equipment, talk on phone etc etc etc). I am traditional and do not observe the Sabbath, but we adhere to the family aspect of it, and try be with the family every friday night.

This whole issue can go further.
Some 40 odd years ago there was the 6 day war, when Israel's surrounding enemies decided to attack Israel as they knew many army personal would be fasting, and preying in Synagogue, however this was an emergency circumstance and they had to break the observance of the day in order to protect the nation and their people......

Maybe some of you should also look at it in a different perspective....
let's say that one of our players, had suffered a family tragedy or something pretty disturbing had happened......would you guys all expect them to play, or does the fact that the club pays them mean that they have to play????
Hmmm I don't think the supporters or the club would expect it, and there would not be such a long thread about it??

[Morph]

Scenario

What about if Stevie G, Carra, Torres and Agger were all deeply committed and pretty fundamentalist Christians.

Its the final Sunday of the season. We're top of the league on goal difference. Our last fixture is away to Man U. We're level on points with them. They win, they win the league. Anything else and we get our first league win since 1990.

Stevie, Carra, Torres and Agger say they won't play on the sabbath.

How do we feel about this?

Maybe we'd ask the league to move the game, pointless scenario tho, and nothing like Yossi missing a home game v boro at the start of the season

[Guest]

I honestly believe that many people are missing the point of this thread.

Yom Kippur (The Day of Atonement) is an incredibly religious day. As i said once before it is one day that almost every Jew around the world (the mere c14.5million of us) observes the day and repents. if one is in full health they will fast - no quesions asked!

Trust me, after a day with no food or water you are in no position to perform at your peak.

The argument of other religions and Sunday being a Christian day has no merit. For us Jews, the sabbath is every Saturday. For the more religious Jews, this day is all about G-d and family, and they observe it (you are not meant to drive, write, turn on or off any electrical equipment, talk on phone etc etc etc). I am traditional and do not observe the Sabbath, but we adhere to the family aspect of it, and try be with the family every friday night.

This whole issue can go further.
Some 40 odd years ago there was the 6 day war, when Israel's surrounding enemies decided to attack Israel as they knew many army personal would be fasting, and preying in Synagogue, however this was an emergency circumstance and they had to break the observance of the day in order to protect the nation and their people......

Maybe some of you should also look at it in a different perspective....
let's say that one of our players, had suffered a family tragedy or something pretty disturbing had happened......would you guys all expect them to play, or does the fact that the club pays them mean that they have to play????
Hmmm I don't think the supporters or the club would expect it, and there would not be such a long thread about it??

I think the fact that I don't adhere to any religious views makes it difficult for me to understand fully the views of deeply religious people and I apologize for being ignorant mate.

I hardly take breaks from work and never ever take holidays for Easter etc, unless our company gives an extended break at Christmas.

[Kenneth]

I honestly believe that many people are missing the point of this thread.

Fair enough, but I think the point of the threat is that Jossi believes some mumbo jumbo that means he won't be available for Liverpool. Whatever mumbo jumbo is the reason, it's not a good enough reason in my personal opinion.