THE post match reaction thread....

[Craig_H]

To DJS :

(I'm not going to do a big "quote off" because this thread is long enough )

First up, you say rotating the squad won't win us the league. WEll, that remains to be seen. Just because it hasn't in 3 seasons so far doesn't make it impossible. We're challenging, we're ahead of the SCUM.

Rafa isn't the best manager we've ever had, YET. But the potential is there, he's ony had 3 seasons. If he wins the Premiership he'll be up there. However, the point I was making in that statement was that we can't afford to lose our manager. With respect to you saying rotation won't win us the title because it hasn't so far, well I hardly think that's a fair statement. We haven't had a world class striker since Rafa arrived, Torres is the first. Now Rafa ha got the players he's wanted we can judge the system of rotation appropriately. If you don't have good enough players, then rotation or non-rotation won't make any difference.
WRT the 2 strikers argument. Well it may not be necessary, but under Rafa's rotation system, I think it is necessary.

Rafa is the best manager available to us, I can't think of any manager I'd rather ave running the team. I trust him, he's earned that, and I'm backing him.

That's the problem though mate, Rafa's rotation system makes it necessary when it's...well, unnecessary to do so!

I dont understand it, why point to the need for another world class striker, when we dont use the one we have? What's the point? Why not just play Torres?

What was there today, to possibly rest him for? Carling Cup? Surely not. He came off in Porto specifically FOR (or as we all thought) today's game. Then he sits on the bench today. It's ludicrous.

We're only in september and he's already dropped Torres for a third of our games. It's utterly ridiculous and if it continues, it costs us any real chance of the title. Players like torres win you league titles, but only if you let them.

[JPK]

You cant have world class players in every position.

I think the wingers are adequate. Babel will go on to become a very good player, and Pennant's only really lacking goals. They arent world class, but they're not going to be the deciding factor.

Pennant has not scored or assisted for the club in 5months DJS.
I agree with lots you say but I cant agree with you saying wingers are not a deciding factor.Every team who has won the league have had wingers who scored and assisted.

[Red Chilli]

That's Rafa's footballing philosophy and he's not going to change it. It's not going to happen. Some managers are a strict 4-4-2 manager and they'll play that way every game, because that's what they know best.

Rafa has this system of rotation, it can win you titles because it has won Rafa titles, granted not in this country but this is only his 4th season.
As this is Rafa's system i think we need another class striker. You can't play torres if he's injured/suspended.

[Dan]

Pennant has not scored or assisted for the club in 5months DJS.
I agree with lots you say but I cant agree with you saying wingers are not a deciding factor.Every team who has won the league have had wingers who scored and assisted.

Arsenal had Pires, Ljungberg

Chelsea had Robben, Cole

Utd had Giggs, Ronaldo

We have a player who fits that catagory in Babel but Pennant hardly gets an assist and Benayoun is not good enough for the starting 11. Kewell at his best could get us goals but IF he ever plays for us again, I definetly dont think he will get anywhere near his best

[cobain]

That's the problem though mate, Rafa's rotation system makes it necessary when it's...well, unnecessary to do so!

I dont understand it, why point to the need for another world class striker, when we dont use the one we have? What's the point? Why not just play Torres?

What was there today, to possibly rest him for? Carling Cup? Surely not. He came off in Porto specifically FOR (or as we all thought) today's game. Then he sits on the bench today. It's ludicrous.

We're only in september and he's already dropped Torres for a third of our games. It's utterly ridiculous and if it continues, it costs us any real chance of the title. Players like torres win you league titles, but only if you let them.

yes and Rafa said that he didn't play Torres because he couldn't get between defenders today ... Well, I'm certain that whenever he would get a ball, 3 defenders would be on him, which would make more room for others. Surely this can't be bad. I don't think I have seen more than 1 defender on either Kuyt or Voronin throughout the whole match Yet when Torres came on, they panicked and were all over him. He set up 2 clear chances too ...

[bigfooty]

You cant have world class players in every position.

I think the wingers are adequate. Babel will go on to become a very good player, and Pennant's only really lacking goals. They arent world class, but they're not going to be the deciding factor.

But Babel is not a winger. Pennant isn't just lacking goals, he doesn't create nearly as much as people think and in fact hasn't created a goal in the league or Europe since APRIL. 5 months to the day in fact. And I'm sorry, but "only lacking goals" is not good enough considering he has never been a prolific goalscorer so there is no reason to expect he'll change.

The fact is for the 120M Rafa has spent he's purchased maybe two players who I would say are quality attacking types and they would be Garcia and Torres. Every other attacking signing he has made have big question marks over them or fails to hold down a regular starting spot.

[Craig_H]

Pennant has not scored or assisted for the club in 5months DJS.
I agree with lots you say but I cant agree with you saying wingers are not a deciding factor.Every team who has won the league have had wingers who scored and assisted.

I said they wont be THE deciding factor.

I agree they could be better and it doesnt help. But we can still win it with those two wingers.

That's why i'm so pissed off with Rafa at the moment, we actually DO have the players/squad to win it and it's the first time in ages that we have.

Yet, his ridiculous decisions to leave the best ones on the bench makes it all futile.

[cobain]

Arsenal had Pires, Ljungberg

Chelsea had Robben, Cole and Duff

Utd had Giggs, Ronaldo

We have a player who fits that catagory in Babel but Pennant hardly gets an assist and Benayoun is not good enough for the starting 11. Kewell at his best could get us goals but IF he ever plays for us again, I definetly dont think he will get anywhere near his best

[alunevans]

You cant have world class players in every position.

I think the wingers are adequate. Babel will go on to become a very good player, and Pennant's only really lacking goals. They arent world class, but they're not going to be the deciding factor.

You can't, but to unlock defences then your wingers had better be top notch. Wingers is no position for your journeyman professional in my view.

[Craig_H]

That's Rafa's footballing philosophy and he's not going to change it. It's not going to happen. Some managers are a strict 4-4-2 manager and they'll play that way every game, because that's what they know best.

Rafa has this system of rotation, it can win you titles because it has won Rafa titles, granted not in this country but this is only his 4th season.
As this is Rafa's system i think we need another class striker. You can't play torres if he's injured/suspended.

If he wont change it, he wont win the league.

Say what you will about La Liga, i think the Premiership is more competitive, there's more of a 'anyone can beat anyone' situation and for that reason, you cant waste the quality you have.

As for Torres getting injured/suspended, you cant just not play him for fear of that. What's the point? If he's injured or suspended he cant play, but when he's fit and available, he also doesnt seem to play much. We're not achieving anything by sitting him on the bench.

[bigfooty]

Yet when Torres came on, they panicked and were all over him. He set up 2 clear chances too ...

Crouch too, with Birmingham not having defenders of the quality of Distin or Campbell he attracted usually a couple of markers when the ball came from deep to him and this created space for others, such as on the attempt where they cleared from inside the six yard box.

[Craig_H]

But Babel is not a winger. Pennant isn't just lacking goals, he doesn't create nearly as much as people think and in fact hasn't created a goal in the league or Europe since APRIL. 5 months to the day in fact. And I'm sorry, but "only lacking goals" is not good enough considering he has never been a prolific goalscorer so there is no reason to expect he'll change.

The fact is for the 120M Rafa has spent he's purchased maybe two players who I would say are quality attacking types and they would be Garcia and Torres. Every other attacking signing he has made have big question marks over them or fails to hold down a regular starting spot.

Well that's the manager's fault then, isnt it?

[Craig_H]

You can't, but to unlock defences then your wingers had better be top notch. Wingers is no position for your journeyman professional in my view.

You may well have a point alun. But we havent had top notch wingers for ages, yet we've usually been able to unlock defences. Even allowing for that, i'll temporarily agree with you and say the wingers need to be improved upon.
But then that takes us to the next question - who do you get? There arent too many top class wingers out there.

Robben, for all his antics, would've been great (fitness permitting). SWP would too IMO. Neither seem(ed) to be feasible options. Where else do you look? I'm stuck for ideas. Quaresma? Mancini? Either could be hit or miss really.

[SouthAfricaRed]

We miss Alonso. Without him we have lost our attacking edge

[kurtangle01]

It's always painful to lose. Oh hang on a minute we didn't, and we haven't lost yet this season. In fact we're second in the league. Doh! silly me I thought there was a crisis.

What a load of crap in this thread. "Pako won us the games, now he's gone we can't win" "Rafa should go".
jesus what a load of bollocks.

When I left the ground today I couldn't help but wonder how much of an impact Pako's departure has had on Rafa and the players. That's not to say that I think he "won us games" but he obviously had a lot of influence behind the scenes.

My main concern is how pedestrian and short of ideas we've looked recently. The rotating for rotatings sake can't be helping. What happened to earning your place? It seems under Rafa though that no matter how well you do you'll be rotated out and no matter how badly you do you'll be rotated in. We're not an under sevens team where everyone will get their turn. Or, at least, we shouldn't be.

No way should our best players be rotated at this stage of the season. How often did Arsenal "rotate" Henry or the mancs Ronaldo? Not often! Yet Rafa is continually leaving our best players out for rotations sake.