The Derby - Where's the hatred come from?

[Sir Bob]

Coming from Liverpool & being a Red its natural to 'hate' EFC. In an ideal world they would be relegated this season & find their proper level in League 1, in a year or 2.

They 'hate' us & we 'hate' them, & thats how it should be. However, this 'hatred' never boiled over like some in other British cities. The Merseyside derby used to be called the Friendly Derby & by & large it was. My brothers a Blue & so are many of my mates. I've stood on the Street End with them at Derbies & they've stood on the Kop with me. Even though we'd always wear our scarves, there was never any hint of trouble. Sure they'd be a few comments but you never felt threatened at all. Whenever the away team scored at either ground, they'd be pockets of away supporters all over the ground jumping for joy. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't always 100% sweetness & light between the supporters but it was genuinely the Friendly Derby. Not anymore.

Today, the derby is a pretty spiteful affair. Its not quite at the Man Utd level but its getting there. I don't go to Goodison derbies anymore with my mates & they don't come to Anfield with me. We no longer meet outside the Arkles after the game for a pint & some good natured mickey taking. Reds who do go to Goodison now tell of kids in LFC kits getting sworn at by grown men in Blue. Likewise Blues tell similar tales from Anfield. Whats gone wrong?

Some Reds blame Heysel. They say the Blues bitterness at not being allowed into the European Cup has spilled over into the Derbies. Some Blues blame the rise of Man Utd in the 1990's. the derby became more important to us, Blues argue because we were no longer the dominant force in England. In the 1970's & 1980's if we lost the Derby, we could console ourselves with League titles & European Cups.

I have no simple answers to be honest but I don't blame the Blues anymore than us. However, the days of going to Wembley on the same coaches & trains are long gone. The Echo printed a photo the other day after the League Cup Final between them & us which finished all sqaure. The photo was of John Bailey & Alan Kennedy, arms around each others shoulders. Bailey wore a Red hat, Kennedy a Blue. If that happened nowadays, Kennedy & Bailey would be verbally attacked by many fans. What a shame that is?

So I won't be at Goodison this Saturday. I won't meet my mates for a post match pint outside the ground. i'll watch the match at home or in the pub, mobile phone in hand ready to pile on their misery at we romp to victory. It'll be nice but it won't be the same as it used.

Like many, I think the Derby is all the poorer for that.

[rodo]

rats ****in rats the lot of them

[Shaggy]

What a great post.

The last derby I went to at Goodison was the "Gary Mac" game. As usual me & my Kopite mate travelled to the game with about 20 Blues on their mini-bus.

We were in the Gwladys St end and kept a relatively low profile during the game - until Gary Macca bent that free-kick in. We went absolutely ****ing mental, danced in the aisles (getting showered in spit in the process) before running a gauntlet of abuse and more spittle as we legged it for the exits, knowing it was virtually the last kick of the game.

We waited for our mates (they were my mates' mates really, I didn't know them until we started going to Goodison every year with them) outside, giddy as ****. Eventually they turned up with faces, naturally, like thunder. The main mate in the group is a great big **** off skinhead, with EFC tattooed into the back of his head (the same lad also called his daughter Eva Toni Ann!) and we walked along with him. Despite his appearance he seemed a very placid fella but on this occasion you could see the smoke coming out of his ears.

Coming in the opposite direction was a young Red of about 16 years of age. The skinhead Blue charged up to him (amid all the abuse being levelled at the kid), booted him as hard as he could before gozzing all over his face. Charming eh? I couldn't understand it - he was being fine with us, if a little moody, so why couldn't he extend that to other Reds?

The walk back to the bus was filled with a hatred I'd not really seen before at previous derbies - not even after the Friday night derby when Westerveld blasted the ball against Don Hutchison in the last minute for the ball to trickle over the line ().

It's a shame and I wish it was how it used to be.

[rodo]

What a great post.

The last derby I went to at Goodison was the "Gary Mac" game. As usual me & my Kopite mate travelled to the game with about 20 Blues on their mini-bus.

We were in the Gwladys St end and kept a relatively low profile during the game - until Gary Macca bent that free-kick in. We went absolutely ****ing mental, danced in the aisles (getting showered in spit in the process) before running a gauntlet of abuse and more spittle as we legged it for the exits, knowing it was virtually the last kick of the game.

We waited for our mates (they were my mates' mates really, I didn't know them until we started going to Goodison every year with them) outside, giddy as ****. Eventually they turned up with faces, naturally, like thunder. The main mate in the group is a great big **** off skinhead, with EFC tattooed into the back of his head (the same lad also called his daughter Eva Toni Ann!) and we walked along with him. Despite his appearance he seemed a very placid fella but on this occasion you could see the smoke coming out of his ears.

Coming in the opposite direction was a young Red of about 16 years of age. The skinhead Blue charged up to him (amid all the abuse being levelled at the kid), booted him as hard as he could before gozzing all over his face. Charming eh? I couldn't understand it - he was being fine with us, if a little moody, so why couldn't he extend that to other Reds?

The walk back to the bus was filled with a hatred I'd not really seen before at previous derbies - not even after the Friday night derby when Westerveld blasted the ball against Don Hutchison in the last minute for the ball to trickle over the line ().

It's a shame and I wish it was how it used to be.

been there mate

[Shaggy]

been there mate

It's not much fun is it? Don't get me wrong, I love the banter and I love throwing the occasional hand gesture, but all this is too much. Kids getting attacked verbally and physically by big **** off adults isn't on in any walk of life.

[desertscouser]

I'm not a scouser (my nickname was given to me at school) many years ago, but I was born in Birkenhead and that's where I went to school. Our school was mostly red but there were a few blue noses and TRFC fans dotted about the place, some of whom were and still are my mates. We used to go to the derbies together but as Sir Bob mentioned, those days are long gone.

I'm not sure where it went wrong but the last time I went to Goodison (I think it was 1996) to watch us play I was, as always, sitting in the Upper Bullens stand. Fowler scored a very late equalizer and all of us (reds of course) went wild knowing we'd just snatched a late equalizer. I remember being spat at and had all sorts of sh!t thrown at us. I never experienced that sort of venom at Goodison before and that was the day I decided never to go to that sh!t hole again.

Mates of mine have been since and they've had hillsborough and heysel insults thrown at them and chants of murderers is now the norm. I wouldn't want to tar all blue ****es with the same brush but there is a large section of Evertonians now who are spiteful beyond belief and absolutely hate our guts. Imo it's the younger ones who are the worst of the lot, those who've never really experienced a 'friendly' derby and those who've never really experienced any sort of success supporting Everton. Apart from Rideout's goal against the scum 12 years ago they haven't been close to winning another trophy. These little **** heads look across the park and see a team bringing home a trophy every year and they can't hack it. It's this jealousy which in my opinion has created such animosity from the blue half of Merseyside and naturally that's creatyed the same sort of hatred coming from our side. I never used to hate Everton but I fecking hate the [censored] now. Apart from playing the Mancs at Old Trafford , the Goodison derby is the match I want to win most of all every season.

I can safely say I f*cking hate Everton Fc with an absolute passion.

[The Glove]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

[rodo]

It's not much fun is it? Don't get me wrong, I love the banter and I love throwing the occasional hand gesture, but all this is too much. Kids getting attacked verbally and physically by big **** off adults isn't on in any walk of life.

was in the oak one day before the derby and some lad walked in wearing a top looked about 18 and was on his own he nearly got lynched by a load of the dickheads and was chased out the alehouse still remember the poor ******* lookin terrified

[Shaggy]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

I can see your point and that may have a little bit to do with it, but personally I reckon Desertscouser got it about right.

IMO it's down to a combination of Heysel and their deluded beliefs that the tragedy prevented them from winning the European Cup (they conveniently forget that they couldn't even win their own league in 1986, nor the FA Cup :whatever, Desertscouser's comments about them not being able to hack our success, and a small element of The Glove's point.

[rodo]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

dunno about that mate as it`s the scousers who battle with each other in town after it

[disco]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

If that was true it would be the out-of-towners throwing the abuse/violence, but it's (mainly) the scousers. Afterall, Everton hardly have any out of town support

[desertscouser]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

Do you know what, I think there's a lot of truth in what you've just written. On top of that, I've noticed even animosity from some young scally reds to 'out of town' reds and that's becoming more and more common. At Cardiff for the cup final last season there was a banner 'Wessex reds' hanging up by the Cardiff arms and these horrible looking scallies, must've been 16 - 20 yrs old were losing their minds singing f*ck the Wessex reds with serious venom. Even in the queue to get into the ground there were these young scallies shouting 'where are the scousers' and 'f*ck off wolly backs'. It's a sad state of affairs when reds from all over the country / world are now subjected to abuse by small minded thick cnuts....

[rodo]

i`m from liverpool and years ago i would have a laugh with the bluenoses in work but the last few years the humour has gone to be replaced with hatred towards them

[Shaggy]

At Cardiff for the cup final last season there was a banner 'Wessex reds' hanging up by the Cardiff arms and these horrible looking scallies, must've been 16 - 20 yrs old were losing their minds singing f*ck the Wessex reds with serious venom. Even in the queue to get into the ground there were these young scallies shouting 'where are the scousers' and 'f*ck off wolly backs'. It's a sad state of affairs when reds from all over the country / world are now subjected to abuse by small minded thick cnuts....

[rodo]

Do you know what, I think there's a lot of truth in what you've just written. On top of that, I've noticed even animosity from some young scally reds to 'out of town' reds and that's becoming more and more common. At Cardiff for the cup final last season there was a banner 'Wessex reds' hanging up by the Cardiff arms and these horrible looking scallies, must've been 16 - 20 yrs old were losing their minds singing f*ck the Wessex reds with serious venom. Even in the queue to get into the ground there were these young scallies shouting 'where are the scousers' and 'f*ck off wolly backs'. It's a sad state of affairs when reds from all over the country / world are now subjected to abuse by small minded thick cnuts....

there is a lot to agree with in all of these posts