The Derby - Where's the hatred come from?

[rodo]

It is tho, i will be Sat in mine on Saturday and hear sirens all afternoon, at least 3 or 4 pubs will get shut by the bizzies.

Its not too bad if its a draw or if we get beat. But if we win its ****en horrible.

i know mate the problem is deffo the younger element of the bluenoses who have probably never seen them win a thing and are bitter beyond belief and going on the rampage after the derby is all they have to look forward to for me it`ll either be in ours or the local club sad state of affairs indeed

[rodo]

don`t blame it on kendall
don`t blame it on harvey
don`t blame it on walker
just blame it on heysel
don`t blame it on a **** ground
don`t blame it on a **** team
dont`t blame it on **** fans
just blame it on heysel

that is a song a load of our youngsters were singing in the stanley when we were locked in there cos the bluenoses were goin nuts after last years derby at anfield

[RedJedi]

R kid has just took over The Anfield ( which is by Goodison ), bet he's in for some fun on saturday

[Redspin]

Coming from Liverpool & being a Red its natural to 'hate' EFC. In an ideal world they would be relegated this season & find their proper level in League 1, in a year or 2.

They 'hate' us & we 'hate' them, & thats how it should be. However, this 'hatred' never boiled over like some in other British cities. The Merseyside derby used to be called the Friendly Derby & by & large it was. My brothers a Blue & so are many of my mates. I've stood on the Street End with them at Derbies & they've stood on the Kop with me. Even though we'd always wear our scarves, there was never any hint of trouble. Sure they'd be a few comments but you never felt threatened at all. Whenever the away team scored at either ground, they'd be pockets of away supporters all over the ground jumping for joy. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't always 100% sweetness & light between the supporters but it was genuinely the Friendly Derby. Not anymore.

Today, the derby is a pretty spiteful affair. Its not quite at the Man Utd level but its getting there. I don't go to Goodison derbies anymore with my mates & they don't come to Anfield with me. We no longer meet outside the Arkles after the game for a pint & some good natured mickey taking. Reds who do go to Goodison now tell of kids in LFC kits getting sworn at by grown men in Blue. Likewise Blues tell similar tales from Anfield. Whats gone wrong?

Some Reds blame Heysel. They say the Blues bitterness at not being allowed into the European Cup has spilled over into the Derbies. Some Blues blame the rise of Man Utd in the 1990's. the derby became more important to us, Blues argue because we were no longer the dominant force in England. In the 1970's & 1980's if we lost the Derby, we could console ourselves with League titles & European Cups.

I have no simple answers to be honest but I don't blame the Blues anymore than us. However, the days of going to Wembley on the same coaches & trains are long gone. The Echo printed a photo the other day after the League Cup Final between them & us which finished all sqaure. The photo was of John Bailey & Alan Kennedy, arms around each others shoulders. Bailey wore a Red hat, Kennedy a Blue. If that happened nowadays, Kennedy & Bailey would be verbally attacked by many fans. What a shame that is?

So I won't be at Goodison this Saturday. I won't meet my mates for a post match pint outside the ground. i'll watch the match at home or in the pub, mobile phone in hand ready to pile on their misery at we romp to victory. It'll be nice but it won't be the same as it used.

Like many, I think the Derby is all the poorer for that.

I think this "friendly derby" thing is a bit of a myth. I've been going to both grounds for derbies since the 60s and it often kicked off. Occasionally there's a sort of uneasy truce and most fans don't cause any trouble on either side, but be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's as bad as any derby.

[Redspin]

I think this "friendly derby" thing is a bit of a myth. I've been going to both grounds for derbies since the 60s and it often kicked off. Occasionally there's a sort of uneasy truce and most fans don't cause any trouble on either side, but be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's as bad as any derby.

I should also have said that it wasn't that the derby where John Bailey and Alan Kennedy were all pally showed how friendly it all was - basically Bailey was a massive Liverpool fan, so he'd be happy whatever the outcome as any true Red would be

[Redspin]

This is where I get lynched.


I think the spitefulness has a lot to do with the rise of the number of out of town-ers.

My thinking is that, its never been all happiness and light, but when it was all scousers, people knew people, they got on in work and out of work. they'd go the game together as they were mates outside of football. Thats not the case anymore. The people going the game now are not mates with Blues everyday, dont have blues in their family etc and as a result of this they just see Everton as 'the enemy' as they havent known blues as anything else. Everton are our city rivals and thats it. But to scousers, Evertonians are your brother, your old fella, the bloke next door etc and it is this that has started the hatred.

Not true. I am a scouser - and OOTer these days by choice - and it's always been dodgy at derby games. Apart from one cousin (and I have 56 cousins) every single member of my family is a Liverpool fan and all my mates families support one or other team. In my experience it's quite unusual to have families split down the middle, despite the media myth

I've always seen Everton as the enemy and I lived in the city until early adulthood and went to innumerable derbies at the time. There were fights going to, during and coming back from derbies throughout the 60s and 70s, so can we please lay off this totally untrue assertion that we're all peace-loving scousers but the nasty OOTers have spolied it for us all. It's 100% incorrect and shuld be laid to rest once and for all

[Redspin]

I can see your point and that may have a little bit to do with it, but personally I reckon Desertscouser got it about right.

IMO it's down to a combination of Heysel and their deluded beliefs that the tragedy prevented them from winning the European Cup (they conveniently forget that they couldn't even win their own league in 1986, nor the FA Cup :whatever, Desertscouser's comments about them not being able to hack our success, and a small element of The Glove's point.

Nothing to do with Heysel at all. It always kicked off a couple of decades before Heysel

[Mumsafan]

I haven't been to Goodison since 1986. And I don't intend going again! I get my tickets every year and let my mate and his Dad have them. There's a few blue****e where I live and they are unbearable! They always look for our score straight after theirs. They are obssessed. One of them didn't speak to me for over a month after Istanbul. Yet when they win they leave messages on my phone , notes on the wall in the pub, they go on for weeks as if they've won the ****in league!

As for hooliganism being on the rise again I think it's true. At the weekend we met a fella at a wedding who we'd not seen for a long time, a Manc. We were discussing with hiom what goes on at either ground when we play them and he was having none of it. He has an ST there now they've extended and he's a right Prawn Sandwich lot if you ask me. Totally and utterly blind to anything that goes on. In the end he said we were talking **** and went home in a mood! What a feckin ****!

[Red_hot]

Not true. I am a scouser - and OOTer these days by choice - and it's always been dodgy at derby games. Apart from one cousin (and I have 56 cousins) every single member of my family is a Liverpool fan and all my mates families support one or other team. In my experience it's quite unusual to have families split down the middle, despite the media myth

I've always seen Everton as the enemy and I lived in the city until early adulthood and went to innumerable derbies at the time. There were fights going to, during and coming back from derbies throughout the 60s and 70s, so can we please lay off this totally untrue assertion that we're all peace-loving scousers but the nasty OOTers have spolied it for us all. It's 100% incorrect and shuld be laid to rest once and for all

That may be true for you but I am also a Scouser and as I posted before I have never seen any bother ever on derby day. I would say my family is entirely split down the middle and I too have a very large family. I would never try to make out like all Scousers are peace loving, the same way I would not try to place all the blame with the Evertonians cos that's crap as well. I don't see Everton as 'The enemy', it's just bollocks. I couldn't give a **** about them. They are **** and always have been but I couldn't give two hoots about them.

[Mumsafan]

I think they are genuinely more bothered about us than we are about them. Although they did start to really aggravate me the year they finished fourth.Mainly cos they wouldn't shut up about it.

They were celebrating in our pub at half time in Istanbul - soon shut them up though!

[Doc_Piptorious]

Not true. I am a scouser - and OOTer these days by choice - and it's always been dodgy at derby games. Apart from one cousin (and I have 56 cousins) every single member of my family is a Liverpool fan and all my mates families support one or other team. In my experience it's quite unusual to have families split down the middle, despite the media myth

I've always seen Everton as the enemy and I lived in the city until early adulthood and went to innumerable derbies at the time. There were fights going to, during and coming back from derbies throughout the 60s and 70s, so can we please lay off this totally untrue assertion that we're all peace-loving scousers but the nasty OOTers have spolied it for us all. It's 100% incorrect and shuld be laid to rest once and for all

I'm not a scouser, but I went to school in Liverpool and lived there when I was a kid growing up. I think Chris does touch on a valid point, but I do not think it is the main reason.

I remember all the banter and slagging with bluenoses when I was growing up, and with no real malice as I knew them and they knew me, and it was just a bit of slagging for most. Then some lads who might be just up for the game would come in and get in people's faces with chants etc and the lack of familiarity between people made it very easy for a ruck to happen.

I still enjoy banter when I go to Derby games, and often meet up with mates before and after the game, both Red and Blue, and we always get some good slagging in on each other.

Mind you, the worst abuse I have seen in the last ten years has been at Anfield, and it has been racist crap by Liverpool fans on other Liverpool fans. It is a nasty cowardly element that has crept back into the ground. Mostly white young males and some of what they say disgusts me. I have seen too many young Asian fans verbally abused and worse at the ground by ignorant thugs. The stewards do what they can, but unless they see and hear it happening, their hands are tied, same for the cops.

[Red_hot]

Good post.

[Sir Bob]

A couple of points.
There are many families that have both Red & Blue fans. I was from one, & know countless others.

The Derby was never all sweetness & lights but I've attended derbies at both grounds from the 1970's onwards, and in my view the general atmosphere is now much more hostile, both in & out of the ground than it used to be.

[The Glove]

Not true. I am a scouser - and OOTer these days by choice - and it's always been dodgy at derby games. Apart from one cousin (and I have 56 cousins) every single member of my family is a Liverpool fan and all my mates families support one or other team. In my experience it's quite unusual to have families split down the middle, despite the media myth

I've always seen Everton as the enemy and I lived in the city until early adulthood and went to innumerable derbies at the time. There were fights going to, during and coming back from derbies throughout the 60s and 70s, so can we please lay off this totally untrue assertion that we're all peace-loving scousers but the nasty OOTers have spolied it for us all. It's 100% incorrect and shuld be laid to rest once and for all

Living in the shadow of Castle Greyskull I know many families that are split.

Also, violence may wel have been rife on Derby day in the 60's and 70's but it was also rife when Leeds came into town, when Utd came along and so on. Football violence was rife full stop, and it was certainly no worse fighting on derby day than when other firms turned up in Stanley Park.

[Ryan_Derrick]

On top of that, I've noticed even animosity from some young scally reds to 'out of town' reds and that's becoming more and more common. At Cardiff for the cup final last season there was a banner 'Wessex reds' hanging up by the Cardiff arms and these horrible looking scallies, must've been 16 - 20 yrs old were losing their minds singing f*ck the Wessex reds with serious venom. Even in the queue to get into the ground there were these young scallies shouting 'where are the scousers' and 'f*ck off wolly backs'. It's a sad state of affairs when reds from all over the country / world are now subjected to abuse by small minded thick cnuts....

Half time at the Valley last season some ****, on hearing my southern accent shouted "Your in the wrong ****ing end ain't ya?" I was more pissed of by this than the defeat.