Xabi Alonso and our lack of goals

[CAD]

Wouldnt argue too much with that

I'd also add that sometime for the sake of balance and a team that functions Gerrard might have to play on the right (but only "sometimes")

If he would stay out there, I would have no problem with that. However, I have yet to see a game with Gerrard at RM where he didn't pull towards the middle.

[fred_plasticine]

The old school rubish again.

Gerrard scored 5 goals as a 2nd striker. 6 as a RM and 13 as CM in his 23 goals season.

source?

[Lecter]

If he would stay out there, I would have no problem with that. However, I have yet to see a game with Gerrard at RM where he didn't pull towards the middle.

McDermott & Ray Kennedy pulled towards the middle also didnt stop them effecting the game

[Dhav]

I underestimated your debating powers.....

Well I've debated ad nauseum on here in the last week about how important Xabi is to us, I even started a thread about it, and then clowns like you come up with your clear anti-Alonso agenda and keep on spouting the same ****.

I stand by the comments I made that you took objection to but I will add a caveat - people who do not understand Xabi's importance to the team either do not understand football or have no understanding or appreciation for the way Rafa sets out his teams.

I personally do not even think this point is up for debate: Xabi is the most intelligent footballer in our squad with the sharpest footballing mind and is Rafa's general on the pitch. Yet you come on here and spout the some garbage about how Gerrard is in every aspects 10 times the player that Alonso is.

It is clear to me that there is simply no reasoning with some people, and so all that is left is using no uncertain terms that even they can understand.

[Pacman]

Well I've debated ad nauseum on here in the last week about how important Xabi is to us, I even started a thread about it, and then clowns like you come up with your clear anti-Alonso agenda and keep on spouting the same ****.

I stand by the comments I made that you took objection to but I will add a caveat - people who do not understand Xabi's importance to the team either do not understand football or have no understanding or appreciation for the way Rafa sets out his teams.

I personally do not even think this point is up for debate: Xabi is the most intelligent footballer in our squad with the sharpest footballing mind and is Rafa's general on the pitch. Yet you come on here and spout the some garbage about how Gerrard is in every aspects 10 times the player that Alonso is.

It is clear to me that there is simply no reasoning with some people, and so all that is left is using no uncertain terms that even they can understand.

[bazza76]

The thing is Xabi and Souness have / had what Rafa would call "game intelligence", I think Gerrard is lacking in that department

That for me is one of the things that is the difference between being a good defensive player or not

Look at Makalele, Hamann, Whelan, Souness, Keane they all had that positional sense or knowledge / game intelligence whatever you want to call it

Gerrard has the aggression and pace and power but I dont think he has nor ever would have that defensive positional sense

I think he would though lol, thats where the difference of opinion is.
Practice makes perfect, and I am sure, with the proper coaching, Gerrard could have been perfect for that role.

[Dhav]

I think he would though lol, thats where the difference of opinion is.
Practice makes perfect, and I am sure, with the proper coaching, Gerrard could have been perfect for that role.

I'd be surprised to be honest - he just has that gung-ho attitude about him, I very much doubt you could train him to be tactically disciplined when his natural inclination is to just burst forward. For me it's the old adage of not being able to teach old dogs new tricks.

[Lecter]

I think he would though lol, thats where the difference of opinion is.
Practice makes perfect, and I am sure, with the proper coaching, Gerrard could have been perfect for that role.

Not convinced of that

Some people become better positionally others dont, doesnt matter how good the coach is if the player isnt capable of taking it on board it wont happen

Personally I think Gerrard is an instinctive player so much so that he isnt aware of the consequences of some of his actions. I think this is one of the reasons Benitez moved him a little further forward

[bazza76]

If he would stay out there, I would have no problem with that. However, I have yet to see a game with Gerrard at RM where he didn't pull towards the middle.

Pulling towards the middle is part and parcel of being a good winger, sometimes you have to go inside in order to be unpredictable. If not, your opponents will eventually start reading you like a book.

[Lecter]

I'd be surprised to be honest - he just has that gung-ho attitude about him, I very much doubt you could train him to be tactically disciplined when his natural inclination is to just burst forward. For me it's the old adage of not being able to teach old dogs new tricks.

Yeah thats my take on it

How often have you seen Gerrard make a bursting run forward only for the opposition to counter leaving Gerrard stood bemused or slowly troting back towards his own goal

[bazza76]

Not convinced of that

Some people become better positionally others dont, doesnt matter how good the coach is if the player isnt capable of taking it on board it wont happen

Personally I think Gerrard is an instinctive player so much so that he isnt aware of the consequences of some of his actions. I think this is one of the reasons Benitez moved him a little further forward

So you think that he would vacate his position too often?.
He played as a right fullback for us in the Champions league and was very disciplined, he has done so in a central midfield position in the past too.
Houllier had a big part in the Gerrard we see today, he gave him the license to be that player. I still think Gerrard is professional enough to do a holding role, only if he plays there regularly enough, and having said tha, it will probably the position he retires into.

[bazza76]

I'd be surprised to be honest - he just has that gung-ho attitude about him, I very much doubt you could train him to be tactically disciplined when his natural inclination is to just burst forward. For me it's the old adage of not being able to teach old dogs new tricks.

hardly an old dog though, I know I said earlier that Xabi is more disciplined in that role, but I do say that because he is more accustomed to it.
I guess there is no way of proving who is right and who is wrong, unless he is played there regularly enough.

[Dhav]

Yeah thats my take on it

How often have you seen Gerrard make a bursting run forward only for the opposition to counter leaving Gerrard stood bemused or slowly troting back towards his own goal

A very common sight. And I think someone made reference to it the other day that the team benefits from having two holding players behind Gerrard so that he can burst forward and we still have cover if the opposition counters. Makes sense I think.

[Lecter]

So you think that he would vacate his position too often?.
He played as a right fullback for us in the Champions league and was very disciplined, he has done so in a central midfield position in the past too.
Houllier had a big part in the Gerrard we see today, he gave him the license to be that player. I still think Gerrard is professional enough to do a holding role, only if he plays there regularly enough, and having said tha, it will probably the position he retires into.

Yes I think he vacates positions too much

LOL @ playing right fullback in the CL final, he had cramp he couldnt ****ing move so of course he would be disciplined

I have seen VERY few games were Gerrard has maintained his discipline as I said earlier hes very like Steve McMahon, hes tough tackling all action but I dont think he has the nous or discipline to ever do the holding role

It doesnt diminish him as a player but I dont see him doing an adequate enough job in that position

[carheex]

Well I've debated ad nauseum on here in the last week about how important Xabi is to us, I even started a thread about it, and then clowns like you come up with your clear anti-Alonso agenda and keep on spouting the same ****.

I stand by the comments I made that you took objection to but I will add a caveat - people who do not understand Xabi's importance to the team either do not understand football or have no understanding or appreciation for the way Rafa sets out his teams.

I personally do not even think this point is up for debate: Xabi is the most intelligent footballer in our squad with the sharpest footballing mind and is Rafa's general on the pitch. Yet you come on here and spout the some garbage about how Gerrard is in every aspects 10 times the player that Alonso is.

It is clear to me that there is simply no reasoning with some people, and so all that is left is using no uncertain terms that even they can understand.

That's like me saying your opinions on Xabi are just you "spouting the same ****" - but I wouldn't stoop that low.
All you have done is, probably without even realising it, reiterated that people who don't share your opinion know nothing about football. You have proved NOTHING - it is all about opinions and I respect yours whilst disagreeing with them 100%.
With regards to "people not understanding or appreciating how Rafa sets out his teams".......do you agree 100% with every tactic, team selection and substitution that Rafa makes?? Of course not.