Xabi Alonso and our lack of goals

[tomasjj]

right on cue....

It's only when someone is out of the team that people forget how poor they were playing before - hence the excitement of kewell's return. As good a player Xabi has shown to be, early in his LFC career, gerrard is 10 times the player in every aspect. Let's not witchhunt our best player because the whole team is playing badly. If you really think alonso's return, bearing in mind he's been poor for well over a year, is going to make us start playing well again then you;re seriously deluded.

He isn't, you know.
He is just good at other things than Alonso. They compliment eachother pretty well.

[dww]

right on cue....

It's only when someone is out of the team that people forget how poor they were playing before - hence the excitement of kewell's return. As good a player Xabi has shown to be, early in his LFC career, gerrard is 10 times the player in every aspect. Let's not witchhunt our best player because the whole team is playing badly. If you really think alonso's return, bearing in mind he's been poor for well over a year, is going to make us start playing well again then you;re seriously deluded.

I think it's just that other people have consistantly disagreed with your assessment of Alonso's performances over the last year which you conveniently forget here. While a lot of people have gone with your point of view significant numbers have stated repeatedly that they thought Alonso was an important cog in our machine and that he was less obvious but no less effective of late.

[bazza76]

right on cue....

It's only when someone is out of the team that people forget how poor they were playing before - hence the excitement of kewell's return. As good a player Xabi has shown to be, early in his LFC career, gerrard is 10 times the player in every aspect. Let's not witchhunt our best player because the whole team is playing badly. If you really think alonso's return, bearing in mind he's been poor for well over a year, is going to make us start playing well again then you;re seriously deluded.

10 times the player?
Fact remains, based on Rafa's management style and the way he likes his team to approach a game, based on a solid defence and midfield, Alonso is more important to the setup than Gerrard is.
Gerrard, as an individual player, has a better allround game, but he is not as disciplined as Xabi when playing infront of a back 4.

[carheex]

Alonso are our engine and Gerrard the fuel that powers it. Mascherano is the airbag that protect the back four.

you're talking out of your exhaust....

[Sarb]

Xabi is class. Moves the ball quickly and gets our play going. Midfield haven't really had much of a clue since he's been out. The kind of player you miss when he's not playing but you don't notice when he's on the pitch.

[fred_plasticine]

right on cue....

It's only when someone is out of the team that people forget how poor they were playing before - hence the excitement of kewell's return. As good a player Xabi has shown to be, early in his LFC career, gerrard is 10 times the player in every aspect. Let's not witchhunt our best player because the whole team is playing badly. If you really think alonso's return, bearing in mind he's been poor for well over a year, is going to make us start playing well again then you;re seriously deluded.

alonso brings something to the team wich gerrard cannot offer, it's a simple as that. gerrard has never been tactically disciplined and has always been at his best when given the freedom to roam. xabi's contribution is totally different to that, he offers first and formost stability to our midfield. he's tactically astute whereas i sometimes doubt gerrard is.

[Lecter]

He isn't, you know.
He is just good at other things than Alonso. They compliment eachother pretty well.

Well said

Gerrard is far more dynamic than Alonso, hes stronger, quicker and gets into the box better than Alonso and will score more goals than Alonso

However football wise Alonso is far more intelligent and disciplined

[carheex]

10 times the player?
Fact remains, based on Rafa's management style and the way he likes his team to approach a game, based on a solid defence and midfield, Alonso is more important to the setup than Gerrard is.
Gerrard, as an individual player, has a better allround game, but he is not as disciplined as Xabi when playing infront of a back 4.

Disciplined or static? The difference is gerrards play is that he's a far superior passer and tackler and can actually win games when he goes forward. He hates to see a lack of penetration up front hence his forward runs which more often than not do the business. Possibly we'll lose less with alonso in the defensive role but we'd win more with gerrard there. At the end of the day, the argument over gerrard or alonso would be a moot point if agger wasn't out, therefore hsi absence is far more telling than xabi;s.

[Lecter]

Xabi is class. Moves the ball quickly and gets our play going. Midfield haven't really had much of a clue since he's been out. The kind of player you miss when he's not playing but you don't notice when he's on the pitch.

[bazza76]

alonso brings something to the team wich gerrard cannot offer, it's a simple as that. gerrard has never been tactically disciplined and has always been at his best when given the freedom to roam. xabi's contribution is totally different to that, he offers first and formost stability to our midfield. he's tactically astute whereas i sometimes doubt gerrard is.

Thing is though, I don;t think we can really blame Stevie for this.
He has played a variety of positions at the club, it does rob you of some dicipline when you are asked to roam, switch position and use your creative flair to make opportunities for the team.
As opposed to Stevie, being played, regularly in the centre in alonso's position.
I am of the opinion that, if Gerrard had always been played in the centre, and nowhere else, he would be as effective, if not more so, than Xabi in the centre.

[fred_plasticine]

The difference is gerrards play is that he's a far superior passer and tackler .

xabi's overall the much better passer of the ball than gerrard. though his passing has let him down last season.

[Sarb]

Disciplined or static? The difference is gerrards play is that he's a far superior passer and tackler and can actually win games when he goes forward. He hates to see a lack of penetration up front hence his forward runs which more often than not do the business. Possibly we'll lose less with alonso in the defensive role but we'd win more with gerrard there. At the end of the day, the argument over gerrard or alonso would be a moot point if agger wasn't out, therefore hsi absence is far more telling than xabi;s.

Wouldn't say Gerrard is a far superior passer on recent form. I'm not going to go into slating Gerrard, but it's ridiculous having a go at Xabi. Yeah he's been out of form but for me when fit he should start in the middle. Gives the team balance and can also score goals

[bazza76]

Disciplined or static? The difference is gerrards play is that he's a far superior passer and tackler and can actually win games when he goes forward. He hates to see a lack of penetration up front hence his forward runs which more often than not do the business. Possibly we'll lose less with alonso in the defensive role but we'd win more with gerrard there. At the end of the day, the argument over gerrard or alonso would be a moot point if agger wasn't out, therefore hsi absence is far more telling than xabi;s.

Disciplined I don't for the record think Gerrard is a better passer, maybe at the Hollywood balls which they are both good at, but Xabi is quite the expert at getting out of tight situations with short passes.
you are right about Gerrards style and what he likes to achieve in possession, which is percisely why he doesn't exactly fit into Rafa's man infront of the defense player. I have no problem with Gerrard playing advanced midfield.

[Lecter]

Disciplined or static? The difference is gerrards play is that he's a far superior passer and tackler and can actually win games when he goes forward. He hates to see a lack of penetration up front hence his forward runs which more often than not do the business. Possibly we'll lose less with alonso in the defensive role but we'd win more with gerrard there. At the end of the day, the argument over gerrard or alonso would be a moot point if agger wasn't out, therefore hsi absence is far more telling than xabi;s.

There are some extremely debateable points in your above post

Best passer Gerrard, there are many many people who would argue that (including Gerrard himself probably)

Better tackler, well if you look at the stats over the last couple of years no player has attempted more tackles than Alonso and nobody has a better success rate of tackles won than him also. Gerrard is a full blooded tackler who hits players harder but that doesnt necessarily qualify you as the best tackler

Of coursde attacking wise Gerrard is the best player no arguments from me on that one

Regarding Alonso or Gerrard in the defensive role its a no contest. Alonso is far more intelligent and disciplined than Gerrard will ever be, he shuts down opposition attacks by positional play alone. Gerrard also vacates the midfield space too often leaving gaps behind him (of course thats beneficial attacking wise but not defensively)

[Lecter]

Thing is though, I don;t think we can really blame Stevie for this.
He has played a variety of positions at the club, it does rob you of some dicipline when you are asked to roam, switch position and use your creative flair to make opportunities for the team.
As opposed to Stevie, being played, regularly in the centre in alonso's position.
I am of the opinion that, if Gerrard had always been played in the centre, and nowhere else, he would be as effective, if not more so, than Xabi in the centre.

I dont think he would have

When Gerrard played centrally early in his career he had Hamann to do the disciplined work, then Alonso and now Mascherano

Gerrard is an attacking midfielder (always has been in my opinion) very much in the mold of Steve McMahon and to compliment that type of player you need someone who has the brains / discipline to know when to hold

Neither Gerrard nor McMahon have / had the nous to do that