Kuyt scores more often than Crouch - FACT!

[El Jefecito]

If Kuyt is our link-man can you explain how he played over 20 games with Bellamy last season? Are you trying to say Bellamy was our out and out target man striker? Or how Kuyt himself was picked up front on his own for games like Man Utd and Milan? Was he linking the play from our midfield to their goalie?

I never thought Crouch was bought to score goals, I thought he was purchased because he gave our team a different dimension to the likes of Nando, Cisse and Baros. Kuyt WAS bought to score goals as he came with the reputation of doing just that, along with creating for others. Yet Crouch has pretty much matched him in goal scoring terms since Kuyt came to the club and is better at creating for others. This despite getting significantly less time on the pitch.

We play better football when we have Crouch in the side and keep the ball on the deck because he's a better footballer than Kuyt. Pretty simple really.

Crouch is competing with Torres. Torres is better. Even simpler really.

While Rafa plays with a link man and someone leading the line, Crouch's games will be limited unless Torres or himself become great link men.

[bigfooty]

Yes, I am saying Bellamy played on the shoulder, i.e. lead the line and Kuyt was the link man. Thought that was pretty self evident

Kuyt must be pretty **** then because we only won something like 9 of 21 matches they started together?

[bigfooty]

And furthermore Kuyt always looked a better player playing alongside / ahead of Crouch rather than alongside Bellamy. If he's a link-man specialist that you seem to think he is then how do you explain this?

[El Jefecito]

Kuyt must be pretty **** then because we only won something like 9 of 21 matches they started together?

I didn't say Kuyt was good, only that comparing him w/Crouch is meaningless as they have different roles. I would compare Kuyt to Reina would you?

[El Jefecito]

And furthermore Kuyt always looked a better player playing alongside / ahead of Crouch rather than alongside Bellamy. If he's a link-man specialist that you seem to think he is then how do you explain this?

Mate, I'm just telling you where Rafa plays him and where Rafa says he plays him. He plays "in between the lines".

If you can't see that then this conversation is over as that is pretty axiomatic to any discussion

[lfcruleus]

No because he scored goals.

Dalglish? surely he should have scored as many as Rushie by your argument??

[Gazzla]

Nonsense.

They're all strikers, i'm not having this 'link man' tripe as a get out clause for being a pants goalscorer.

OK lets look at Dennis Bergkamps stats

Season Club Games Goals Strike rate
2005-06 Arsenal 24 2 0.08
2004-05 Arsenal 29 8 0.28
2003-04 Arsenal 28 4 0.14
2002-03 Arsenal 29 4 0.14
2001-02 Arsenal 33 9 0.27
2000-01 Arsenal 25 3 0.12
1999-00 Arsenal 28 6 0.21

Does this also mean he was a pants goalscorer?

[Craig_H]

Dalglish? surely he should have scored as many as Rushie by your argument??

Dalglish scored a fair few, but Rush was prolific and the midfielders chipped in too.

And if you're honestly compared Kuyt's contribution to that of dalglish...well, there's not much i can do to help you.

[Craig_H]

OK lets look at Dennis Bergkamps stats

Season Club Games Goals Strike rate
2005-06 Arsenal 24 2 0.08
2004-05 Arsenal 29 8 0.28
2003-04 Arsenal 28 4 0.14
2002-03 Arsenal 29 4 0.14
2001-02 Arsenal 33 9 0.27
2000-01 Arsenal 25 3 0.12
1999-00 Arsenal 28 6 0.21

Does this also mean he was a pants goalscorer?

Yet again, who played up front with him and how many did the midfielders chip in with?

Try and take ALL of what i've said, as opposed to the odd bit.

[dww]

Yet again, who played up front with him and how many did the midfielders chip in with?

Try and take ALL of what i've said, as opposed to the odd bit.

While you make a valid point you haven't actually answered the specific question have you? Surely Bergkamp could be a pants goalscorer yet add enough to a team to make him an exceptional player. Those stats certainly indicate that he was far from prolific.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

OK lets look at Dennis Bergkamps stats

Season Club Games Goals Strike rate
2005-06 Arsenal 24 2 0.08
2004-05 Arsenal 29 8 0.28
2003-04 Arsenal 28 4 0.14
2002-03 Arsenal 29 4 0.14
2001-02 Arsenal 33 9 0.27
2000-01 Arsenal 25 3 0.12
1999-00 Arsenal 28 6 0.21

Does this also mean he was a pants goalscorer?

It's not all about goals though is it?

Yes it's an important part of the game, the most important, but also the team performance is more important than that of the individual.

I don't know why bringing a top class player like Bergkamp into this argument makes sense. Anyone who saw him play will tell you he wasn't an out and out goalscorer, but at the same time he was an integral part of that excellent Arsenal side of a few years ago.

Re Kuyt, he should be judged on his performances, and his ability, rather than his goal out put. Before he signed I didn't expect him to score 20 goals a season, but what I did expect is a player who could trap the ball and be able to finish more clinically.

If he was signed to play as a second striker, and we're judging him not by his goals to games ratio but by his all round technical game, then he's been a massive disappointment. I don't see how anyone can dispute this.

[Red_Al_77]

Goal per minute in all comp this season;

Torres 8 goals 912mins Ave 114mins/per goal
Kuyt 5 goals 1027mins Ave 205mins/per goal
Voronin 4 goals 867mins Ave 217mins/per goal
Crouch 3 goals 757mins Ave 252mins/per goal

Non strikers

Benayuon 5 goals 899mins Ave 179.8mins/per goal
Gerrard 6 goals 1335mins Ave 223mins/per goal
Alonso 2 goals 505mins Ave 253mins/per goal
Babel 3 goals 808mins Ave 269mins/per goal


If Kuyt is a support player as some make out then Yossi does a better job. If Kuyt is a front line striker then seeing as he's played more than any other striker his goal per game average this season (for a 9million striker) is hardly better than a freebie Voronin.

[lfcruleus]

Dalglish scored a fair few, but Rush was prolific and the midfielders chipped in too.

And if you're honestly compared Kuyt's contribution to that of dalglish...well, there's not much i can do to help you.

That wasnt my point at all and you know that, you implied all strikers should have equal goal ratios, Kenny played a support role all his career and scored 1 in 4 roughly very similar to Dirk for LFC.
No Dirk aint Kenny but he is playing the same sort of role in a far inferior quality team in a tougher league.

[Craig_H]

While you make a valid point you haven't actually answered the specific question have you? Surely Bergkamp could be a pants goalscorer yet add enough to a team to make him an exceptional player. Those stats certainly indicate that he was far from prolific.

IMO, you need one striker who scores maybe 25 in a season, while his partner needs to be getting 15 or more.

Then you need midfielders who chip in too. We dont have midfielders who score enough and Kuyt will struggle to get 15+ goals.

Bear in mind, i'm talking about the requirements to WIN titles.

[Craig_H]

That wasnt my point at all and you know that, you implied all strikers should have equal goal ratios, Kenny played a support role all his career and scored 1 in 4 roughly very similar to Dirk for LFC.
No Dirk aint Kenny but he is playing the same sort of role in a far inferior quality team in a tougher league.

No i didnt.