Post match thread

[Craig_H]

We can but we won't.

Mind you I never thought we would anyway. 3rd I said from the outset.

Just so long as we're "in touch" throughout and mount SOME SORT of challenge, it will represent progress.

Not being out of the race by October was a start.

Maybe next year we'll hang in there til January...then Feb the year after....

By my reckoning, we're right in the frame for a title win in 2013

[Craig_H]

It's a penalty 10 times out of ten when the ball hit the arm/hand when you don't have your arm close to your body, and Tevez had his arm a long way from that and the ball hit his arm.

A very clear penalty that should have been given 10 times out of 10. It won't matter if it's ball to hand/arm in this case.

To be fair, i was at the other end so my view was a poor one (not doing a wenger btw)....and i've yet to see it on TV, so i'll take back my comment until i've seen it on TV.

But you thought we should've had 2 penos at Reading and my initial thought when i read you posting about it was that you were making a joke...so i smiled.

Then i realised you were serious.

And i laughed.

[bazza76]

I think this is one of the best posts.

You cant deny that this summer, rafa bought very well and you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and say if he's given money again, he'll probably buy well again.

The bigger issue though for me, is more about which players he uses and when. Kuyt today was a disaster waiting to happen and it took Rafa 75 mins to see that. Likewise Kewell (apart from 75 mins thing). This is worrying. He did buy well last summer and i cant criticise him for that. Why he doesnt USE what he bought? Babel up front perchance? Or even ahead of Kewell maybe?

Slower players like Kewell and Kuyt do have their uses, but when you're up against the champions, you need much better and Rafa needs to identify this.

Overall though, of course his position shouldnt be under threat, that'd be lunacy and he deserves to be given the chance to continue signing good players with the money he should hopefully be given. Having done that, he just needs to be a bit more shrewd in his selection policy and we'll be more or less sorted.

That post reads to me like you still don't understand Rafa's methods.
He plays players with good technique and instinct when we are up against a team that defends deep. Today United defended deep hence the inclusion of Kewell. Kuyt was in the team for workrate, as Rafa would see it, an essential cog in a pressure machine that unsettles the opponents and creates space for his team mates. If you expect Rafa to abandon everything he believes in because you don't see why he does such thins you are deluded.
I sometimes wish Rafa brough such and such on, like Crouch for instnce, I wanted him on at half time, but there was no way Rafa was going to sacrifice his pressure machine (Kuyt) which would have a big effect on the team, to introduce a player that would force us to use route one for the next 45 mins. Espceially as we knew torres wasn't coming off. Rafa just was never going to do it.
What is clear to me. Is we need more quality, despite the signing of Babel and Torres, we are STILL short of class in the side. We simply must improve the squad to challenge properly, I was actually worried about the finishing ability of the United attack today, but I did think pre match we would win anyway due to our confidence.
Unfortunately we got undone by a clever set piece today. Ferguson reconised that the zonal marking is working a treat for us and decided to go around it, it worked, small details as Rafa says.
I do not think we can win the league now, but it doesn't mean we stop trying.
We missed a few players today. Finnan being a noticeable absentee along with obviously Agger and Alonso, the two string pullers if you like.
I have seen some saying if Rafa has signed Teves etc. How do they know we tried to sign him? anyway, didn't United get him ono a two year loan?. I think we could have afforded that if we really wanted him now. Again I will say, it wasn't the fact that we missed out on Teves that cost us the game, it was a clever set piece, any one of our strikers would have fiished that today.

[Craig_H]

title challenge is not gone.......IT'S DECMEBER FOR **** SAKE PEOPLE!!!!

10 point defecit to make up AND away games at OT, Chelsea and Emirates...

It's gone.

[AFII]

But Crouch and Babel ARE better than Kuyt and Kewell...

You talk about a better pool of players to pick from, but on recent evidence and the bizarre continuation of Kuyt's selection, i remain unconvinced that Rafa would even PICK the 'better' players if he had them (which in the two cases given, he DOES have them, but doesnt use them enough).

Crouch isn't good enough and Babel should play on the right and Kewell on the left. They are our two best wide attacking players.

[bazza76]

Just wanted to put a break in the thread so no-one has an epileptic fit from DJS's avatar which appears in 90% of the drivel on this page.

[Craig_H]

I am sick to ****ing death of settling for this before christmas. Not having a pop at you Syd as you're correct, but my god this is beginning to get on my ****ing nerves.
If 'that' was our title tilt then god help us - we've got years and years ahead of us before we get that elusive title.

I dont think it's a million miles off mate, but the obstacles are IMO the manager's own sense of priority, which is well off the mark, and his wrong selection of individual players, which is also related to mentality.

Tweak those and we'll not only challenge, but IMO, we'd win it.

[Craig_H]

you cant serioulsy consider selling bennni?!?!?!? the man is the only player we have with enough skill to pick tight defenses. he might not be the answer long term but for now he the best we got and will get better playing with lfc players this year. i say give him a year or two to show he can do it.

I'm not saying sell him no, i'm just saying we could've done without him if the money was added to that spent on a few others, and used to buy a TOP quality attacking player.

[bazza76]

Crouch isn't good enough and Babel should play on the right and Kewell on the left. They are our two best wide attacking players.

Babel on the right today would have meant he couldn't come inside and shoot when introduced, he was unucky not to score today in the brief time he was on. I'd rather him on the left.

[Craig_H]

Just wanted to put a break in the thread so no-one has an epileptic fit from DJS's avatar which appears in 90% of the drivel on this page.

Sorry, i just got home an hour ago and had a 270 minute drive home during which all these thoughts were swirling around

[Craig_H]

That post reads to me like you still don't understand Rafa's methods.
He plays players with good technique and instinct when we are up against a team that defends deep. Today United defended deep hence the inclusion of Kewell. Kuyt was in the team for workrate, as Rafa would see it, an essential cog in a pressure machine that unsettles the opponents and creates space for his team mates. If you expect Rafa to abandon everything he believes in because you don't see why he does such thins you are deluded.
I sometimes wish Rafa brough such and such on, like Crouch for instnce, I wanted him on at half time, but there was no way Rafa was going to sacrifice his pressure machine (Kuyt) which would have a big effect on the team, to introduce a player that would force us to use route one for the next 45 mins. Espceially as we knew torres wasn't coming off. Rafa just was never going to do it.
What is clear to me. Is we need more quality, despite the signing of Babel and Torres, we are STILL short of class in the side. We simply must improve the squad to challenge properly, I was actually worried about the finishing ability of the United attack today, but I did think pre match we would win anyway due to our confidence.
Unfortunately we got undone by a clever set piece today. Ferguson reconised that the zonal marking is working a treat for us and decided to go around it, it worked, small details as Rafa says.
I do not think we can win the league now, but it doesn't mean we stop trying.
We missed a few players today. Finnan being a noticeable absentee along with obviously Agger and Alonso, the two string pullers if you like.
I have seen some saying if Rafa has signed Teves etc. How do they know we tried to sign him? anyway, didn't United get him ono a two year loan?. I think we could have afforded that if we really wanted him now. Again I will say, it wasn't the fact that we missed out on Teves that cost us the game, it was a clever set piece, any one of our strikers would have fiished that today.

I didnt read all that, but i'll simply say ok, but if Rafa doesnt adapt his thinking then unfortunately he will never EVER win the PL.

[Craig_H]

Crouch isn't good enough and Babel should play on the right and Kewell on the left. They are our two best wide attacking players.

Crouch is a million miles better than Kuyt and should've played today.

As for Kewell, he's ok but he has the reaction speed of a coma-victim and this wasnt ever going to work today.

[disco]

OK, some stats for the hard of thinking.

We had 20 shots, they had 4, and 60% of the possession. They scored from a ****ty sloppy goal when otherwise unthreatening, their other chances were counterattacking in the second half.

The better team lost, it's very very annoying - particularly when you have a 4 hour coach journey back - but for ****s sake some of you numpties are as usual (when we drop points) totally overanalysing it.

My only criticism of our performance today (other than switching off for the goal)?

**** crosses

[Craig_H]

How many of those shots were actually threatening though?

[disco]

Sorry, i just got home an hour ago and had a 270 minute drive home during which all these thoughts were swirling around

Fair enough, get it out of your system.