Rafa's best team in his own mind...

[Howard_lfc]

I'm not sure quite how Xabi's rhythm allows Gerrard to do what he does best better than Masher though. Gerrard is at his best driving forward from midfield with the ball at his feet. And while he has to share defensive responsibilty with Alonso, he is more free to advance in the knowledge Mascherano is protecting him.

Given his recent form, I'm not sure you can argue Gerrard has been ineffective alongside Masher.

Xabi is he first receiver from carra/sami/agger and he'll then move the ball on. This obviously forces Sg to move further forward or look for another position. Playing Stevie deep is serverley restricting his impact on the game.
From the games I've seen lately SG has been deeper than Masher so I dont see how this is allowing him to advance knowing JM is protecting him.

If it's a question of Xabi or Masher to partner Stevie in the middle then for me it's no contest. Xabi is God.

[AFII]

I think Rafa have played Steve deeper because he want SG to take more responsibility and be more of a team player.

He did that in an excellent way against Pompey.

[Alpha]

Xabi is he first receiver from carra/sami/agger and he'll then move the ball on. This obviously forces Sg to move further forward or look for another position. Playing Stevie deep is serverley restricting his impact on the game.
From the games I've seen lately SG has been deeper than Masher so I dont see how this is allowing him to advance knowing JM is protecting him.

If it's a question of Xabi or Masher to partner Stevie in the middle then for me it's no contest. Xabi is God.

Gerrard will drop deep to collect the ball whether he is playing with Xabi or Masher. He is a box-to-box midfielder, that is what he does. That is what he always has done. That is also why he can sometimes be found in a deeper position than his partner too.

The difference is that with Mascherano, he has more freedom to advance and retreat at will whereas with Alonso, it is his responsibility.

[wiw]

I agree with Howard on this one. Masher and Gerrard as a pairing lacks something...Masher doesn't show for the ball like Alonso does (no-one does tbh), and I feel Gerrard is much less effective when he himself is showing for it deep, trying to dictate the play.

At times against Pompey our tempo was slow and we looked to be lacking ideas..Alonso is key to our high tempo and bringing our wingers into play more (QUICKLY). Masher is obviously the superior tackler, but Alonso is more than capable in this department...TBH though I'd like to see all three in the side

[AFII]

Lucas can do the same work as Alonso almost as good as him. Give him a year or so and he will be as good tackler as him. Lucas is also more mobile.

[Craig_H]

Correct. Makes a nonsense of the pundits who claim "Rafa doesn't know his best 11".

I disagree.

I think he does have a best 11 in mind, and if there was a CL final tomorrow, he'd pick it, regardless of the opposition.

[Alpha]

I agree with Howard on this one. Masher and Gerrard as a pairing lacks something...Masher doesn't show for the ball like Alonso does (no-one does tbh), and I feel Gerrard is much less effective when he himself is showing for it deep, trying to dictate the play.

At times against Pompey our tempo was slow and we looked to be lacking ideas..Alonso is key to our high tempo. Masher is obviously the superior tackler, but Alonso is more than capable in this department...TBH though I'd like to see all three in the side

Alonso shows for the ball because he is there, right where he usually is, in the centre of the pitch waiting for it.

Also, Gerrard will drop deep regardless because if he is not showing for the ball, trying to dictate play, he is fire-fighting to create the time-and-space Alonso needs to be effective.

As for tempo, Alonso is at his best stopping to put his foot on the ball in order to spray a pinpoint pass across the pitch. Brilliant for stretching the opposition and gaining territory but high-tempo it is not.

Mascherano is at his best flying into a challenge, breaking-up an opposition attack and either playing it simple, or not so simple, to launch a counter-attack. There is your high-tempo.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree but the bottom line is that both Alonso and Mascherano are top class and we are lucky to have one of them, let alone both.

To an extent, Masher and Xabi both have the ability to compensate for eachother but pound-for-pound, I think we function better with El Jefe.

[lfcchris]

I actually think a lineup like this would be really strong:


-------------Reina------------

Finnan----Agger--carra----Arbeloa

-------------Alonso---------------

--------Masher---Gerrard-------

-----Torres--------------Babel---
--------------Crouch-------------

I would like to see that!!!!!

I think babel is brilliant but why, everytime he gets out on the wing does he cut back in.

He is naturally quick and could take any defender in the league on the wing. Personally, I think that this shows how he prefers to play up front, like he did at ajax.

[wiw]

Alonso shows for the ball because he is there, right where he usually is, in the centre of the pitch waiting for it.

Also, Gerrard will drop deep regardless because if he is not showing for the ball, trying to dictate play, he is fire-fighting to create the time-and-space Alonso needs to be effective.

As for tempo, Alonso is at his best stopping to put his foot on the ball in order to spray a pinpoint pass across the pitch. Brilliant for stretching the opposition and gaining territory but high-tempo it is not.

Mascherano is at his best flying into a challenge, breaking-up an opposition attack and either playing it simple, or not so simple, to launch a counter-attack. There is your high-tempo.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree but the bottom line is that both Alonso and Mascherano are top class and we are lucky to have one of them, let alone both.

To an extent, Masher and Xabi both have the ability to compensate for eachother but pound-for-pound, I think we function better with El Jefe.

I agree with what you say about Masher being at his best, but at Anfield against teams that rarely commit more than 3/4 players to attacks (on the rare occasion that they do get the ball) I feel that we are missing something with Masher in the middle..

Yes Gerrard does make space for Alonso, but I would say that Alonso is better at creating his own space in tight situations and holding onto the ball (not doubting Mashers ability at this also). Perhaps high tempo wasn't exactly what I was looking for..but I feel he keeps us ticking over better, and mixes it up more in his passing.

As you say though, they are both top class and are excellent at what they do

[Morse]

Rafa has NO ideal 11.

He has a squad of players whom he chooses the best 11 for the opposition.

Xabi will play but sometimes Mascher will play...other times Momo.

The only constant is Pepe Reina.

[wiw]

Lucas can do the same work as Alonso almost as good as him. Give him a year or so and he will be as good tackler as him. Lucas is also more mobile.

I think Lucas will certainly be more versatile and more of a box to box player..and I agree with what you say actually He needs to bulk up though

[Alpha]

I agree with what you say about Masher being at his best, but at Anfield against teams that rarely commit more than 3/4 players to attacks (on the rare occasion that they do get the ball) I feel that we are missing something with Masher in the middle..

Yes Gerrard does make space for Alonso, but I would say that Alonso is better at creating his own space in tight situations and holding onto the ball (not doubting Mashers ability at this also). Perhaps high tempo wasn't exactly what I was looking for..but I feel he keeps us ticking over better, and mixes it up more in his passing.

As you say though, they are both top class and are excellent at what they do

I did say back on page 1 that there will be situations where Alonso is better utilised than Mascherano.

But overall, Masher wins by split-decision.

IMO.

[Fiddy]

nic get some christmas cheer you miserable ****. kuyt stretched those ****ers at the back creating holes nearly as big as your own. worked hard, needs to work harder on possession, happy new year

That made me laugh out loud

[Guest]

What? He was ****ing muck yesterday. as per. U on the sauce again? over and out.

Kuyt creates space for others and what he does is generally unnoticed.

[tomasjj]

Nonsense Alpha.
Xabi's tackling is under-rated and his distribution and ability to dictate the rhythym of our game allows Stevie to do what he does best; back up the forwards and 'come onto the ball'.
Lately SG has been paired with Masher and IMO he's been playing too deep to affect the game the way we know he can; take the ManU game as an example.