Rafa's best team in his own mind...

[Roboklopp]

Xabi wont go, dont speak toss. Hopefully we'll offload Momo & keep Masher, then the quartet of CMs we have will be right up there with anyone.

Why are people picking teams with Masher in front of Xabi FFS? Masher's role is to sit in front of the back 4. And how long will I take for people to realise Stevie isnt a 2nd striker- his best work is driving from deep.

Retards. Honestly.

[tomasjj]

I totally agree with you here. Although I think that the key is having Gerrard as part of the right blend of three players behind Torres. He can play either based on the right or centrally if those around him are capable of both offering width and offering something in the box.

Long term I think Babel is ideal for this role - in any of the three positions. However we lack another player who is capable of doing this at the highest level. Benayon has the talent but doesn't quite seem to have the mentality and Kewells lack of pace (and as important, change of pace) has left him short of the ability to do the job against the big boys (although maybe more games will to some degree help this).

Ultimately I think the problem with the Gerrard/Mascher partnership is that Gerrard's understanding of possession football and how to play out from deep is not very instinctual. He therefore tends to come too close to Mascher and attempt too many long balls. Alonso looks much more intelligent in these areas as he has always played that sort of game, whereas Gerrards formative playing years were under Houllier.

Good points!
Especially agree on the SG playmaking point, and how he is more instinctive and rush things with the long ball.

Also the Kewell point is good, and possibly he could slot in behind Torres if we bring in a new left winger.

Something like this would make me jizz, and where we can slot in all 3 of our top midfield players.

---------Torres--------
Silva-----Kewell/Babel---Gerrard
---Alonso--El Jefecito-----

Babel is unfortunately not left footed. If he was there would not be a need for Silva, if one can actually utter such blasphemic statements.
But with Kewell the injury prone one he is, there is still a need for a creative forward/winger who is left footed.

[tomasjj]

In summary, you could say that Xabi is better when we are in possession of the ball and Masher is better when we are not or when we are turning over possession.

If you want somebody to dictate rhythm and stretch defences with his range of passing, pick Alonso.

If you want a ballwinner to screen the midfield and let our players play their natural game, pick Mascherano.

If you want both, pick both.

Yes, a bit simplified, one could say that. I do reckon that Xabi's defensive abilities is a bit better than Maschers attacking ones, but I have seen some improvements from Mascher lately and though he was much better in his playmaking against Pompey.

As you can see in my other post, I'd rather we stuck them both in the team

[Alpha]

Yes, a bit simplified, one could say that. I do reckon that Xabi's defensive abilities is a bit better than Maschers attacking ones, but I have seen some improvements from Mascher lately and though he was much better in his playmaking against Pompey.

As you can see in my other post, I'd rather we stuck them both in the team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvRVBvoG2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8tnBmBGKGY

As you can see, it's not his ability, it's the role he plays for us.

The difference between Alonso and Mascherano is that Mascherano is more accomplished - a jack-of-all-trades, if you will, whereas Alonso is a master-craftsman with limited mobility.

What this means is that you could put Masher in central midfield for any team and he would do a job but you have to build your team around Alonso a little bit more to compensate for his comparative inertia. That makes him sound like a luxury player - he isn't. Far from it. And his distribution more than makes up for his limitations but on balance, I think Mascherano gives that little bit more to the team - his presence allows everybody from our full-backs to our strikers to focus more on attacking than defending.

[Howard_lfc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvRVBvoG2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8tnBmBGKGY

As you can see, it's not his ability, it's the role he plays for us.

The difference between Alonso and Mascherano is that Mascherano is more accomplished - a jack-of-all-trades, if you will, whereas Alonso is a master-craftsman with limited mobility.

What this means is that you could put Masher in central midfield for any team and he would do a job but you have to build your team around Alonso a little bit more to compensate for his comparative inertia. That makes him sound like a luxury player - he isn't. Far from it. And his distribution more than makes up for his limitations but on balance, I think Mascherano gives that little bit more to the team - his presence allows everybody from our full-backs to our strikers to focus more on attacking than defending.

Alpha - another good post but to use 'comparative inertia' is doing Alonso a dis-service IMO.
THe second point I've highlighted sounds more like you're describing Alonso than Mascherano to me.

[Alpha]

Alpha - another good post but to use 'comparative inertia' is doing Alonso a dis-service IMO.

Fair dos.

You see my point though.

THe second point I've highlighted sounds more like you're describing Alonso than Mascherano to me.

"Mascherano gives us balance and allows the others to play their own game. It's really important for players like Torres that they can go forward and sometimes forget they need to defend."

His words, not mine.

[Howard_lfc]

Fair dos.

You see my point though.


His words, not mine.

You git !!!

I'm playing 'off the cuff' here and you're quoting Rafa.

Bleedin' plagiarist!!


Either way Alpha - it's good to have discussions such as this. When there are good posters* with good ideas who can get their point across it really is the way the forum should be. THere have been some excellent posts in this thread which I'm sure (if people had taken the time to read them) would have enlightened them a little.

* I don't include myself in the 'good posters' - I was referring to you lot.

PS It's still Alonso for me !!!

[Alpha]

* I don't include myself in the 'good posters' - I was referring to you lot.

You should do mate.

Looking back, it's quite fascinating how this little community has developed and matured since the Koptalk days.

More and more posters seem to be studying our matches in great depth, stimulating rich debate with tactical analysis.

We have scouts who devote an unhealthy amount of time to following the most obscure competitions in the world so they can feedback information about just about any random player we may be tenuously linked with...

We have business experts enlightening us on everything from club finance to boardroom politics...

We have the media-savvy to read between the lines and trim the spin from the legitimate journalism...

We have genuine insiders with contacts in the the local and national press, at the architect office commissioned to build our new stadium and perhaps even at Melwood...

We have techies who make the whole thing possible by giving us this little soapbox to stand on...

We have the funny ****ers...

Oh - and we have Fredo.

Thanks everybody.

It's been a pleasure.

Merry Christmas.

[Howard_lfc]

Amen to that Alpha.

[wiw]

and we also have Howard's Avatar