Do you still have faith?

[AFII]

Do you think it's possible to lose faith in your doctor without it meaning that you'd be a better GP yourself?

Yes.

Every doctor makes mistakes and that means that the one(s) who was at the end of that mistake will lose faith in him. We have not been at the end of any mistake to take the club forward by Rafa so far.

We are talking about a manager by the way and not a doctor.

If you lose faith in a football manager then you should yourself come up with a better idea and not only come out with a no answer, a plan that would have worked and will work better.

If you lose faith in a doctor then you can just turn to another one and ask for his opinion.

That's my opinion.

[alunevans]

Yes.

Every doctor makes mistakes and that means that the one(s) who was at the end of that mistake will lose faith in him. We have not been at the end of any mistake to take the club forward by Rafa so far.

We are talking about a manager by the way and not a doctor.

If you lose faith in a football manager then you should yourself come up with a better idea and not only come out with a no answer, a plan that would have worked and will work better.

If you lose faith in a doctor then you can just turn to another one and ask for his opinion.

That's my opinion.

Well no was the only option in the poll. Besides I've also said that I don't think he should be fired. But you've already demonstrated that losing faith in a professional doesn't mean you can do that profession better yourself.

[The Erectile Banana]

Yes.

Every doctor makes mistakes and that means that the one(s) who was at the end of that mistake will lose faith in him. We have not been at the end of any mistake to take the club forward by Rafa so far.

We are talking about a manager by the way and not a doctor.

If you lose faith in a football manager then you should yourself come up with a better idea and not only come out with a no answer, a plan that would have worked and will work better.

If you lose faith in a doctor then you can just turn to another one and ask for his opinion.

That's my opinion.

We're fans. It's not our job to come up with a better idea. That's for the board and management of the club.

We can only give our approval or disapproval to what we are presented with.

[vonk]

So 24% of us think that they are a better manager than Rafa. That's interesting

Jesus mate, cancel all debates on the forum now. Anyone who does not agree with what Rafa will be shot at dawn. What is this site for again?

[Snigger]

In what sense were we bigger than Arsenal? Had we won the league more recently, no. Did we finish above them in Houlliers last season, no. Do we have bigger support and greater historical support, yes. Did we have more money to spend, no.

So in the last seasons we have had greater success in Europe and finished ahead of Arsenal. This is an improvement. We have also seen an improvement at youth level and our reserves are now full of promising young players rather than failed first teamers. In all these areas since Rafa has arrived we have improved.

I think as such and considering we have and will continue to have a smaller budget than our immediate rivals I think the question is do you think that Rafa can improve this team and do so enough to maintain a season long challenge for the league. I would say his progress before this season with the club indicates it is possible.

I would personally give him until the end of the season to show that he hasn't started to go off course and that he understands what is needed. I would want to see us playing better football by the end of the season and to finish closer to the winners than we did last year. I would almost certainly give him another season after this one. I think another well backed summer window would be enough to judge whether we are likely to bridge the gap. I don't think it is a huge risk as Rafa has proved able to attract world class stars and to build the youth team so it seems unlikely that given another season he would put us in a considerably worse position, in my opinion he is likely to make us a better team.

We have always been bigger than Arsenal and probably always will be. It does of course depend on how you measure a club but for me it's simple and it's on respect not revenue, not fan base or anything else, simply respect.

We all respect Barca, Real, Juve, AC, Inter, Bayern etc.. for what they have achieved and we would always prefer to avoid them if possible to increase our chances of going through in competitions, we know who the big boys of Europe are right?- for me there are only two English clubs that the European's consistently respect and they are Liverpool and Manu and that respect comes from history and heritage not from bank balances, although the bank balance obviously comes into it in terms of who you can buy. More recently Arsenal have come into the equation thanks largely to Wenger, Henry, Viera, Pires et al but they do not have the pedigree of a Manu or Liverpool and who could respect Chelsea? a team saved and paid for by a billionaire, a team that would not be in the premier league today and a club that would crumble if he left. Teams respect the players that Chelsea have amassed but not the club.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think he's ran out of ideas, personally, and whatever vision he had has been lost in amongst his obsessive tinkering.

Four seasons down the line and we're still debating over what our best system is. Not good enough.

Yes, and that's where he's going wrong.

Amazing how many "average fans" can see this and yet Benitez blunders on regardless.

If in doubt bring out his European record, which has no bearing on our lack of domestic success, aided by some sort of smiley to emphasise how ****ing thick you are.

If you take off your "I was at Istanbul" glasses you'd realise that applying European Cup strategies to bread and butter leagues games, where it's all about consistency and building momentum, just does not work.

These fans who won't have a negative word said about Benitez, despite the reality starting them in the face, are starting to sound like the same ones during the last days of Houllier...and looked how that turned out...

Money, money, money.

Would spending more money stop the excessive rotation, cautious approach and over complicated tactics?

I remember someone saying "we don't need a lot of money to win the league"

I wonder who that was.

Now he can't function unless he signs someone for 20 million, who will most probably be rotated anyway.

Stop press: I could win the league by just signing 20 million quid players.

Listen, the squad that we have now ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN THE LEAGUE, it's he who is stopping them with his methods.

Get your head out of your arse before we fall into another deep rut and need another 5 year ****ing plan to get out of it.

Can a Mod please ban this WUM.

Thank you

I think Jesus clicked the wrong ' Links To Other LFC Forums' option somewhere.
He'd be more at home somewhere else.

*Rubs chin*

Hmmm.

[livvy145]

I think Jesus clicked the wrong ' Links To Other LFC Forums' option somewhere.
He'd be more at home somewhere else.

*Rubs chin*

Hmmm.

Does he remind you of someone?

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think Jesus clicked the wrong ' Links To Other LFC Forums' option somewhere.
He'd be more at home somewhere else.

*Rubs chin*

Hmmm.

Does he remind you of someone?

Yeah. Me.

[redblood]

In what sense were we bigger than Arsenal? Had we won the league more recently, no. Did we finish above them in Houlliers last season, no. Do we have bigger support and greater historical support, yes. Did we have more money to spend, no.

So in the last seasons we have had greater success in Europe and finished ahead of Arsenal. This is an improvement. We have also seen an improvement at youth level and our reserves are now full of promising young players rather than failed first teamers. In all these areas since Rafa has arrived we have improved.

I think as such and considering we have and will continue to have a smaller budget than our immediate rivals I think the question is do you think that Rafa can improve this team and do so enough to maintain a season long challenge for the league. I would say his progress before this season with the club indicates it is possible.

I would personally give him until the end of the season to show that he hasn't started to go off course and that he understands what is needed. I would want to see us playing better football by the end of the season and to finish closer to the winners than we did last year. I would almost certainly give him another season after this one. I think another well backed summer window would be enough to judge whether we are likely to bridge the gap. I don't think it is a huge risk as Rafa has proved able to attract world class stars and to build the youth team so it seems unlikely that given another season he would put us in a considerably worse position, in my opinion he is likely to make us a better team.

I agree completely with that statement, I think and expect us to still finish closer to the winners then we did last year(not competely dismissing a challenge ourselves).
I think the important point we have to consider is that if Rafa is given decent money to buy another 2-3 top class players ala Torres, possibily Babel in that bracket, we will push much closer and I think it would set us back 4-5 years if he got the sack now.
Back him through the next 3 windows and let's see where we are if we are not considerably closer with proper money spent than I would agree it would be time to move him on but he deserves that kind of backing to see what he can really do.
I believe he will push much closer anyway and I personally want to see him stay a long long time but as stated above if he's not progressing while shopping at Harrods instead of Tesco's Finest I'll accept he needs replacing but he should be given another year and a half at least.

[disco]

Shocked at some of the people in the NO column.

Assuming we go on a good run (rays we should do this poll again.

[Craig_H]

Shocked at some of the people in the NO column.

Assuming we go on a good run (rays we should do this poll again.

that's the problem though disco, we're having to assume far too often.

[disco]

Can't argue with that

So your signature - does that mean you're turning over a new leaf?

[dww]

We have always been bigger than Arsenal and probably always will be. It does of course depend on how you measure a club but for me it's simple and it's on respect not revenue, not fan base or anything else, simply respect.

We all respect Barca, Real, Juve, AC, Inter, Bayern etc.. for what they have achieved and we would always prefer to avoid them if possible to increase our chances of going through in competitions, we know who the big boys of Europe are right?- for me there are only two English clubs that the European's consistently respect and they are Liverpool and Manu and that respect comes from history and heritage not from bank balances, although the bank balance obviously comes into it in terms of who you can buy. More recently Arsenal have come into the equation thanks largely to Wenger, Henry, Viera, Pires et al but they do not have the pedigree of a Manu or Liverpool and who could respect Chelsea? a team saved and paid for by a billionaire, a team that would not be in the premier league today and a club that would crumble if he left. Teams respect the players that Chelsea have amassed but not the club.

I'm not sure we can always rely on historical pedigree though. Rafa has bought us back to being real competitors in Europe. Yet I do think in the last Decade the big teams have largely been Man United and Arsenal with Chelsea as late comers.

I think that overall Wenger has carved a legacy for himself at Arsenal and has defined them as one of the 'big' teams in Europe (despite not winning the CL) a position that they didn't occupy before. Now we need to do a similar job in some ways to regain the level of respect at domestic level.

[rezaeos]

Hell, yeah. I wish I could say the same about the owners.

[Howard_lfc]

Shocked at some of the people in the NO column.

Assuming we go on a good run (rays we should do this poll again.

To be fair though Disco - some people voted no - but then qualified their position such as Alun did.