Xabi Or Masher?...You decide.

[Alpha]

Honestly, I have my doubts about SG being a smart enough footballer to be the main creative force of a team.

Actually, I would agree. Wit and guile is not his strength.

Perhaps there is a case for us to sign a top class 'hole' player in the mould of Diego, Pandev or Elano. They could be the creative force high up the pitch while Gerrard could dictate the play and surge from deep.

[CAD]

Honestly, I have my doubts about SG being a smart enough footballer to be the main creative force of a team.

You would rather have Alonso at CM with the lack of drive and force and goals he would bring. In many ways he is a one trick pony on the ball. Passing is his strength. Alonso is not a creative CM in the most basic sense of the word. Zero pace and urgency about him. That you would even consider pushing SG to the right for a player like Alonso is simply beyond me.

I think that SG has shown us this season that he's more than capable at creative midfield and smart enough as well. I begrudge your need to belittle him like this again.

****e - I know I just opened a can of worms.

[tomasjj]

You would rather have Alonso at CM with the lack of drive and force and goals he would bring. In many ways he is a one trick pony on the ball. Passing is his strength. Alonso is not a creative CM in the most basic sense of the word. Zero pace and urgency about him. That you would even consider pushing SG to the right for a player like Alonso is simply beyond me.

I think that SG has shown us this season that he's more than capable at creative midfield and smart enough as well. I begrudge your need to belittle him like this again.

****e - I know I just opened a can of worms.

ha!

We have agreed to differ on this topic before, so I see no need for going around in circles again, mate.

[tomasjj]

Actually, I would agree. Wit and guile is not his strength.

Perhaps there is a case for us to sign a top class 'hole' player in the mould of Diego, Pandev or Elano. They could be the creative force high up the pitch while Gerrard could dictate the play and surge from deep.

Such a player would be a great foil for Torres, agreed.



However, I still feel we would be lacking a top class left sided winger.

[CAD]

ha!

We have agreed to differ on this topic before, so I see no need for going around in circles again, mate.

just want you to know I'm watching

[Alpha]

Such a player would be a great foil for Torres, agreed.



However, I still feel we would be lacking a top class left sided winger.

Well, if we sell Alonso, we could buy one.

[tomasjj]

just want you to know I'm watching

Well, if we sell Alonso, we could buy one.

Tag team?

[CAD]

Well, if we sell Alonso, we could buy one.

[dww]

But your point about the limited options from our wide players is just as much as a issue with Alonso on the pitch as with Mascherano. Xabi's diagonal balls are less effective without players who can take full advantage of the territory his quality gains us.

There is an element of truth about the fact that our lack of wide players affects both but I would say not equally. I think it has a bigger effect on Mascher as his shorter passing range makes Gerrard drop deeper to collect the ball or the wide players to be intelligent enough to do the same. Paired with Alonso, Gerrard can move further forward and still be found consistently by Xabi making him more attacking and to some degree negative the wide problems. Xabi is also more able to get the ball to wide players whose position is less easy to pass too.

I'm sure we will continue to disagree as this analysis again includes the contentious Gerrard issue but nevermind.

[rezaeos]

I rate Mascher exttremely highly, but if I had to choose one or the other I'd keep Xabi, purely from an attacking sense more than anything else. Although he can't match Mascher in terms of tackling, winning the ball, the space he covers, breaking the opposition's play etc he is much more of a goal threat, good from the dead ball, much more accurate passer, better range of passing, can dictate the tempo and can be an outlet for our defence. Considering his all round play and what he offers the team etc, I think he can potentially have a greater influence on a match than Mascher. Obviously though, we need to keep both.

100% agree my friend. Xabi reminds me of Jan Molby, he can open up the game and has killer passes. His form will return shortly, one hopes. Let's spend the !7 Million on a C.B.

[badpiggy]

You would rather have Alonso at CM with the lack of drive and force and goals he would bring. In many ways he is a one trick pony on the ball. Passing is his strength. Alonso is not a creative CM in the most basic sense of the word. Zero pace and urgency about him. That you would even consider pushing SG to the right for a player like Alonso is simply beyond me.

I think that SG has shown us this season that he's more than capable at creative midfield and smart enough as well. I begrudge your need to belittle him like this again.


****e - I know I just opened a can of worms.

how many other players on our team could you say this about? and this is a criticism? we could do with a least half a dozen more first teamers who can regularly play a ball to a teammate.

[Alpha]

There is an element of truth about the fact that our lack of wide players affects both but I would say not equally. I think it has a bigger effect on Mascher as his shorter passing range makes Gerrard drop deeper to collect the ball or the wide players to be intelligent enough to do the same. Paired with Alonso, Gerrard can move further forward and still be found consistently by Xabi making him more attacking and to some degree negative the wide problems. Xabi is also more able to get the ball to wide players whose position is less easy to pass too.

I'm sure we will continue to disagree as this analysis again includes the contentious Gerrard issue but nevermind.

Our lack of quality in wide areas does not reduce the effect of Mascherano's primary work. i.e. winning the ball. He can still do what he does and patrol the midfield, fly into tackles and pick up second balls

But our lack of quality in wide areas does reduce the effect of Alonso's primary work. i.e. passing the ball. The impact of Xabi's quality is greatly reduced by a lack of players with the ability to take advantage of it.

Why do you think we are so often accused of struggling to break teams down? One key reason is Alonso's dwelling on the ball while he is seeking the right pass to make. More often than not, he makes that pass but not before the opposition have had time to organise themselves and regroup.

Gerrard does not have Alonso's range but he does have a greater sense of urgency. With Alonso, the transition between defence and attack can take an age.

I take the point that while Gerrard is dropping deep to play the ball, he isn't available to receive it but to me, that indicates the problem is the lack of a genuine quality link-man more than Stevie's role in the team. As TomasJJ said earlier, Gerrard may not be smart enough to be the creative force. I agree and this brings me back to our difficulty breaking teams down, especially when Gerrard plays your preferred role of between the lines.

[Johnny]

Our lack of quality in wide areas does not reduce the effect of Mascherano's primary work. i.e. winning the ball. He can still do what he does and patrol the midfield, fly into tackles and pick up second balls

But our lack of quality in wide areas does reduce the effect of Alonso's primary work. i.e. passing the ball. The impact of Xabi's quality is greatly reduced by a lack of players with the ability to take advantage of it.

Why do you think we are so often accused of struggling to break teams down? One key reason is Alonso's dwelling on the ball while he is seeking the right pass to make. More often than not, he makes that pass but not before the opposition have had time to organise themselves and regroup.

Gerrard does not have Alonso's range but he does have a greater sense of urgency. With Alonso, the transition between defence and attack can take an age.

I take the point that while Gerrard is dropping deep to play the ball, he isn't available to receive it but to me, that indicates the problem is the lack of a genuine quality link-man more than Stevie's role in the team. As TomasJJ said earlier, Gerrard may not be smart enough to be the creative force. I agree and this brings me back to our difficulty breaking teams down, especially when Gerrard plays your preferred role of between the lines.

Gerrard and Alonso have two different roles to play.
If one of them has a bad day then the team will suffer as they are our midfield generals in defence and attack.

[Alpha]

Gerrard and Alonso have two different roles to play.

Absolutely.

DWW believes that Gerrard drops deep alongside Mascherano to assume Xabi's playmaking role so I was making a comparison.

[badpiggy]

Our lack of quality in wide areas does not reduce the effect of Mascherano's primary work. i.e. winning the ball. He can still do what he does and patrol the midfield, fly into tackles and pick up second balls

But our lack of quality in wide areas does reduce the effect of Alonso's primary work. i.e. passing the ball. The impact of Xabi's quality is greatly reduced by a lack of players with the ability to take advantage of it.

Why do you think we are so often accused of struggling to break teams down? One key reason is Alonso's dwelling on the ball while he is seeking the right pass to make. More often than not, he makes that pass but not before the opposition have had time to organise themselves and regroup.
Gerrard does not have Alonso's range but he does have a greater sense of urgency. With Alonso, the transition between defence and attack can take an age.

I take the point that while Gerrard is dropping deep to play the ball, he isn't available to receive it but to me, that indicates the problem is the lack of a genuine quality link-man more than Stevie's role in the team. As TomasJJ said earlier, Gerrard may not be smart enough to be the creative force. I agree and this brings me back to our difficulty breaking teams down, especially when Gerrard plays your preferred role of between the lines.

i've got to say that i think this is far more an indication of our poor movement off the ball than a problem with a player who can hold on to the ball in midfield.