Mourinho 'keen on Benitez's job'

[anfieldanfield]

In a sane world this would go without saying, unfortunately.....

If after four years he hasn't even come close to challenging for the league title does he deserve the fifth year though ?

[Neil Young]

In a sane world this would go without saying, unfortunately.....

Also in a sane world people probably wouldn't be earnestly debating what songs they might sing in the event of some currently hypothetical event coming to pass. However...

[Kopite_Colin]

I'm having real difficulty with this. I'm a Rafaskeptic I must admit. He's done loads that are great behind the scenes in my view in terms of the people he's brought in, the scouting system is clearly loads better, and the youth system has been revitalised by bringing in some great kids.

But his team selection and they way he sets the team up often baffles me. I don't think our squad is strong enough to win the league but we should be doing a hell of a lot better, and Rafa is a contributory factor in my view.

When I think of Birmingham at home, or Wigan at home, I think Rafa contributed to us not getting the full 3 points. If we had got just those we'd now be on 42pts with a game in hand, that if we had won would put us on 45pts, just 3 behind the Mancs and so seriously in the chase for 2nd if not the league itself.

I think we underperform because Rafa sets us up negatively at times and he does it enough to backfire. I also think the supposed "smaller" games are key games to us given our terrible record against the rest of the top 4, but we often arrogantly field a weakened team against them as if we can take the wins for granted. Results have proven that we can't - so why do we?

If Rafa stopped trying to be too clever for his own good on the pitch then all would be well. But will he? I doubt it.

On the other hand, my faith in the new owners is almost non existent and in a direct battle between Rafa and them I know who I'm backing.

They won't give him money to spend on Mascherano which, given that he is 2 million less than Carrick was (!!!) and given he is 23 and one of the best players in his position in the world, is not just short sighted but criminal.

They won't allow him to even plan for his transfer window, even when it didn't involve costing them money, and even though we're desperate for a centre back to come in.

Frankly, I think they're absolutely clueless and the reasons why they want Rafa gone are nothing to do with football.

What troubles me is that if they sack or force out Rafa, who will they bring in? Because I don't trust their judgement at all. And for me, the golden rule of managerial appointment is to get someone who excites and has the support of the crowd. Then they get a honeymoon period. Without that you have an Allardyce situation.

We've already seen TheGlove saying that they'd support Mourhino but would have the knives out quickly for him, and I think many feel the same way about him. So Maureen would have to get it right from day one and save any glitches until he'd won us over (if he ever did!), or we'd have a manager without the support of the fans very shortly after his appointment.

If I was on the board and my vote mattered the question is would I keep Rafa at this time. The answer is that yes I almost certainly would. The only thing that would change my mind is if there was an alternative candidate out there who was top class and would instantly get the support of the fans. And despite my doubts about selection methods, I'd give Rafa the 17 million for Masher, and then I'd back him as fully as I could on other positions he had identified.

After all, I trust him in the transfer market. And I trust his scouting network.

So I'm a Rafa skeptic, and it may well be that I believe that Rafa has to stop pissing about if he is truly going to be successful in the only competition that truly measures your worth (the league).

But I'm far more suspicious of these new owners than I am of Rafa, and if I was sat on the board then for all my doubts, and even for the fact that I voted that I'd lost faith in the poll the other day (and I stand by that, all things being equal), I'd be arguing his corner vociferously unless a standout alternative manager was put before me.

I know that's not a straightforward position, but sometimes not everything is black and white.

From one Rafa skeptic to another...excellent post Alun. The only pint I would debate with you is

"After all, I trust him in the transfer market."

I'm not sure I do (with regard to attacking players). My hope is that with enough money he will buy true class (as with Torres). His success record with judgement / delivery in bringing in other attacking players is shocking.

[paulcooper4]

If after four years he hasn't even come close to challenging for the league title does he deserve the fifth year though ?

yes he does. You know yourself we have improved every year under Rafa. Stats are not everything, our squad and our football played has improved each year.

[Neil Young]

If after four years he hasn't even come close to challenging for the league title does he deserve the fifth year though ?

Yes.

The club is making progress in a number of areas. The idea that progress towards the league title is somehow inevitably linear is ridiculously simplistic.

Last year Arsenal almost finished fifth and arguably were saved only by a mysterious outbreak of food poisoning. This season they are at the top of the table and, according to most 'experts' (i.e. self- or media-appointed fortune-tellers), are locked in a two-horse race with Manchester United whom they trailed last year by 24 points.

[KK07]

Swing my willy in their yank faces

How are you gonna get that close to them Saq mate,I mean really close,really like!!


(Haven't seen you on xbox in a while fella,where you been?)

[Frank Leroux]

.....

So I'm a Rafa skeptic, and it may well be that I believe that Rafa has to stop pissing about if he is truly going to be successful in the only competition that truly measures your worth (the league).

But I'm far more suspicious of these new owners than I am of Rafa, and if I was sat on the board then for all my doubts, and even for the fact that I voted that I'd lost faith in the poll the other day (and I stand by that, all things being equal), I'd be arguing his corner vociferously unless a standout alternative manager was put before me.

I know that's not a straightforward position, but sometimes not everything is black and white.

Yeh, good post alunevans.

I think it correctly describes the position a lot of us 'sceptics' hold. We want to win the league. I'd prefer it to be with Benitez. The debate is whether you think he will or not.

I don't know the real situation with the Americans (do any of us?) so I couldn't comment on a 'them versus the manager' scenario. However, because of their lack of knowledge of/background in the game I would be concerned if it was left up to them to pick another manager.

[alunevans]

From one Rafa skeptic to another...excellent post Alun. The only pint I would debate with you is

"After all, I trust him in the transfer market."

I'm not sure I do (with regard to attacking players). My hope is that with enough money he will buy true class (as with Torres). His success record with judgement / delivery in bringing in other attacking players is shocking.

My essential point is to compare the squad he inherited with the squad we have now. It's tons better. Remember when we had Diao in midfield. Now our 5th best midfielder is better than a player who was one of Ged's star buys.

Reina is at last a quality goalkeeper, brought in decisively and who has stood the test of time.

Hyppia should have been a nightmare to replace. It was done seamlessly with the purchase of Agger. Inspired!

Alonso was a top signing, so was Mascherano, who with backing would already be ours properly.

Torres is the best thing I've seen for years and years. Babel is raw but in my view is a very exciting player who will be a good signing for us.

In terms of other attacking signings, some have been deliberately short term in my view eg Bellamy, and others just haven't come off such as Morientes - but surely the Morientes signing can be forgiven. He was a proven striker and many of us were thrilled when he signed for us. It just didn't happen here sadly.

Garcia, for all his infuriating faults, was a great signing attacking wise in my view. Even Crouch has done well for us and in my view has been easily worth 7 million quid.

While we've had the Bellamy's and the Pennant's (neither nowhere near LFC class imho), and while Dirk Kuyt in my view was a bad buy too, it's fair to say that every manager is allowed dud buys. And every manager is allowed free squad fillers too like Voronin who shouldn't really be expected to be top notch if that's their role.

There are gaps to fill in our team certainly. And yes they are the wings and up front, especially on the flanks given that I rate Crouch more highly than others here do.

But looking at the squad overall, it's clear that Rafa has done a very good job in the transfer market, even if there are still gaps. We need a hole player in the Beardsley/Dalglish mode, and one (possibly two) top notch flank players to get our squad into a position where you'd look at the side and struggle to find the weakness.

My problems with Rafa aren't to do with his purchases even though some haven't come off. It's to do with his selection methods where I think he can be either arrogant or simply too clever by half, too often.

[KK07]

yes he does. You know yourself we have improved every year under Rafa. Stats are not everything, our squad and our football played has improved each year.

But our league position hasn't coops and we don't seem to be changing that this season either.

I'm all for backing Rafa,but unless he's backed by the owners he's fighting a losing battle!

[Neil Young]

But our league position hasn't coops and we don't seem to be changing that this season either.

I'm all for backing Rafa,but unless he's backed by the owners he's fighting a losing battle!

So are you criticising the owners for not backing Rafa or are you saying Rafa should go because the owners don't want him (in which case you're backing the owners)?

[KK07]

So are you criticising the owners for not backing Rafa or are you saying Rafa should go because the owners don't want him (in which case you're backing the owners)?

Neither I wasn't criticising anyone,just pointing out that in my opinion it appears the owners are not willing to back him in what he needs to do for us to improve in the league.

Sign Mascherano,control the ins and outs of tranfers etc....


Privately I think they're two cunts,although the transfer window has just opened and they may yet back him,so I'll hold back on that criticism for now.

[RedProf]

Yes.

The club is making progress in a number of areas. The idea that progress towards the league title is somehow inevitably linear is ridiculously simplistic.

Last year Arsenal almost finished fifth and arguably were saved only by a mysterious outbreak of food poisoning. This season they are at the top of the table and, according to most 'experts' (i.e. self- or media-appointed fortune-tellers), are locked in a two-horse race with Manchester United whom they trailed last year by 24 points.

Theres been some great posts in this thread and special mention goes to Colin's and Aluns and this one. The bolded bit in Neil's post is incredibly important I think and is something that is very rarely if ever mentioned on this site. Why do most of us think that if we get x points this year we should get x+y points next year and so on until we are top of the pile?? Neil points out the Arsenal example which just goes to show how with the right balance, blend and progress of players, a team can jump several "levels" in capability and consistency in just one season.

Incidentally, if Maureen came in, he would have to change his ways and his persona somewhat - one things for sure, Scousers don't do Billy Big Bollocks, he will be brought to earth and change his mannerisms to fit in with the supporters or be hounded out. But to be honest I think he's smart enough to adapt.

[alunevans]

Yeh, good post alunevans.

I think it correctly describes the position a lot of us 'sceptics' hold. We want to win the league. I'd prefer it to be with Benitez. The debate is whether you think he will or not.

I don't know the real situation with the Americans (do any of us?) so I couldn't comment on a 'them versus the manager' scenario. However, because of their lack of knowledge of/background in the game I would be concerned if it was left up to them to pick another manager.

I think he won't personally because I don't think he'll change some of the things that in my view have needlessly cost us points.

But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be backed in the transfer market, and that doesn't mean he should be sent marching towards the exit necessarily.

I think the club could be asking for trouble if we end up losing Benitez at this time. Can you imagine a scenario where Maureen is appointed, where half the fans think he's a cunt and are only bearing him through gritted teeth, that he gets a run of bad results early on, and then everyone is calling for someone they already hate to **** off away from our club. Nightmare scenario.

Wrongly managed this situation could easily become a major disaster for Liverpool Football Club. The only sensible thing at the moment in my view is to back Benitez, even if there are doubts. Unless someone can produce a top class manager who would get the immediate support of the fans. And by support I don't just mean that we'd get behind him.

I mean someone who doesn't get appointed with a groan from us, and so we end up with a new manager that brings even more doubts about him in our eyes than the one we have now.

So for me, the stability of LFC is at stake here. And to safeguard it, the club needs to back Benitez completely as if they expect him to be here for the next 10 years.

Should a top candidate emerge in the future and we are still underperforming then it may be something to review later, but not now. Now is not the time. I think the burden of proof is on those forcing out Benitez to state that it is.

[paulcooper4]

But our league position hasn't coops and we don't seem to be changing that this season either.

I'm all for backing Rafa,but unless he's backed by the owners he's fighting a losing battle!

i`ll wait and see what our league position is before i comment on that score, were only halfway through the season.

My point was regardless of stats (i.e. league position) I am happy as long as we keep improving with Rafa. In my eyes we have improved every year - on the field and off it.

If the board just keep there gobs shut, be patient and back the manager I believe we are in the very early stages of a dynasty that could go on for years and years.

Our 1st team is not as far away from being the real deal as some people suggest and in a few years we will have some of the most talented kids in world football getting ready for there 1st team breakthrough.

I am looking at the bigger picture when I say anyone other than Rafa in charge of Liverpool would be a big step down and take the club backwards in my eyes.

[KK07]

Theres been some great posts in this thread .

Thanks.