Dubai International to make bid for Liverpool FC

[Dhav]

no johny we know there is problems,we know money is going to be tight,we know we were lied to about where the money was coming from,and we know our owners are unreliable,we know all this.

weve been told this by some very reliable journalists,and not just one either,and these are the same journalists who told us that DIC were back in for us in the first place,the same journalists who told us talks had/were taking place,the journalists who told us that H&G more than likely will get the loan but that wont put off DIC.

there is obviously problems mate,and they are deep running problems.

do you know what pisses me off about you and disco and charlie?

according to you the rest of us are all pathetic over reacting doom mongers who are just following the herd,where as you are the voice of reason,you are the sane ones among all this madness.

there is a divide in this forum not because of the doom mongers but because you guys have turned it nasty by describing the rest of us as sheep and doom mongers and pathetic(not you in particular)

how the **** can you have a civilized convo with those insults getting thrown around.

may i also add that one or two of you love the attention of being the one that is in the minority,boost for the ego if you will.

Agree with every word. I quite like Niall and Disco and Johnny ordinarily, but they have acted sanctimonious, self-righteous and smug of late looking down on the rest of us gullible, doom mongering sheep . Even CAD and RS4 have done it of late.

We happen to love the club and just fear about the direction in which it is being taken under these two - not sure why we deserve to be criticised for that.

[AFII]

The Daily Post can reveal that the financial plan also includes “significant funds” for transfers in the summer.


Thats the other bit of the article worth thinking about. It appears the money, would as their PR bloke said, come from their own pocket?

No, G&H have loaned £45m for that and working costs, whatever that means.

[Pacman]

no johny we know there is problems,we know money is going to be tight,we know we were lied to about where the money was coming from,and we know our owners are unreliable,we know all this.

weve been told this by some very reliable journalists,and not just one either,and these are the same journalists who told us that DIC were back in for us in the first place,the same journalists who told us talks had/were taking place,the journalists who told us that H&G more than likely will get the loan but that wont put off DIC.

there is obviously problems mate,and they are deep running problems.

do you know what pisses me off about you and disco and charlie?

according to you the rest of us are all pathetic over reacting doom mongers who are just following the herd,where as you are the voice of reason,you are the sane ones among all this madness.

there is a divide in this forum not because of the doom mongers but because you guys have turned it nasty by describing the rest of us as sheep and doom mongers and pathetic(not you in particular)

how the **** can you have a civilized convo with those insults getting thrown around.

may i also add that one or two of you love the attention of being the one that is in the minority,boost for the ego if you will.

Agree with every word. I quite like Niall and Disco and Johnny ordinarily, but they have acted sanctimonious, self-righteous and smug of late looking down on the rest of us gullible, doom mongering sheep . Even CAD and RS4 have done it of late.

We happen to love the club and just fear about the direction in which it is being taken under these two - not sure why we deserve to be criticised for that.

I will never again roll my eyes at Tom when he posts about the club being ruined. When he did that I thought 'Oh typical glass half empty Tom' however now I understand how he is feeling.

I am very concerned about the club I love. We have been lied to and once bitten twice shy and all that.

[disco]

Agree with every word. I quite like Niall and Disco and Johnny ordinarily, but they have acted sanctimonious, self-righteous and smug of late looking down on the rest of us gullible, doom mongering sheep . Even CAD and RS4 have done it of late.

We happen to love the club and just fear about the direction in which it is being taken under these two - not sure why we deserve to be criticised for that.

Mate/Rafa Shankly - perhaps Johnny could be a little more subtle and less personal with his replies (although that goes for other people as well!), but I've always tried to be balanced, taking each piece of information as it comes.

I've looked through my posts, and other than the occasional observation that I believe people are quick to jump to conclusions either without any facts or even despite the facts, I've not even been vaguely insulting.

Can we just accept that there are strong differing opinions, some people aren't able to express them very subtly, and not take offense when someone disagrees with even a hint of sarcasm - I have

Oh, and that we all think Hicks is a **** owner!

[CAD]

Agree with every word. I quite like Niall and Disco and Johnny ordinarily, but they have acted sanctimonious, self-righteous and smug of late looking down on the rest of us gullible, doom mongering sheep . Even CAD and RS4 have done it of late.

We happen to love the club and just fear about the direction in which it is being taken under these two - not sure why we deserve to be criticised for that.

I didn't mean to. I just get very pissed off about all this.

I have been independent for almost 20 years and with 3 others I started a company where we had to put up collateral. It turned into a monster with 150 employees and lost a lot of money. We we very close to personally losing about 1,7 mill pounds. We had an angel come in at the very last second for 50% of the shares and safe us. I know what collateral means in every nasty aspect of the word.

If LFC can't meet payments G&H will be forced to cover the interest. There is no getting away from that. The alternative, diluting the squad, makes no sense considering the position they are in. They must keep us competivtive to get a decent return on their investment later on. To suggest that they would be OK with a midtable position is nonsense. These guys might be a lot of thing but stupid is not one of them.

I'm absolutely confident that they will strengthen the squad next window. 110%.

[Dhav]

Mate/Rafa Shankly - perhaps Johnny could be a little more subtle and less personal with his replies (although that goes for other people as well!), but I've always tried to be balanced, taking each piece of information as it comes.

I've looked through my posts, and other than the occasional observation that I believe people are quick to jump to conclusions either without any facts or even despite the facts, I've not even been vaguely insulting.

Can we just accept that there are strong differing opinions, some people aren't able to express them very subtly, and not take offense when someone disagrees with even a hint of sarcasm - I have

Oh, and that we all think Hicks is a **** owner!

You're right mate. I did you a disservice actually, you have been very straight and balanced, except when it came to your spats with Tom

Was just quite surprised at how sanctimonious Niall was coming across yesterday about people's attitude towards the yanks. And RS4 last week for that matter.

[disco]

You're right mate. I did you a disservice actually, you have been very straight and balanced, except when it came to your spats with Tom

Was just quite surprised at how sanctimonious Niall was coming across yesterday about people's attitude towards the yanks. And RS4 last week for that matter.

I still think Tom was a bit rash with his initial conclusions, however we both agree on what information we NEED to find out about.....

re. Niall and RS4 - well their just even more robust with their arguments I must admit, I am 'guilty' of finding protests during the game embarrassing (both personally, and IMO to the club) - but that's all related to my view that we don't know all the facts and my different view on leveraged buy-outs... (oh, and the slightly contentious argument that I don't think they've lied about financing, but that's a different debate that we've done to death )

If Niall gets your back up, just tell him to go write another 'Sack Rafa' thread

[Dhav]

I didn't mean to. I just get very pissed off about all this.

I have been independent for almost 20 years and with 3 others I started a company where we had to put up collateral. It turned into a monster with 150 employees and lost a lot of money. We we very close to personally losing about 1,7 mill pounds. We had an angel come in at the very last second for 50% of the shares and safe us. I know what collateral means in every nasty aspect of the word.

If LFC can't meet payments G&H will be forced to cover the interest. There is no getting away from that. The alternative, diluting the squad, makes no sense considering the position they are in. They must keep us competivtive to get a decent return on their investment later on. To suggest that they would be OK with a midtable position is nonsense. These guys might be a lot of thing but stupid is not one of them.

I'm absolutely confident that they will strengthen the squad next window. 110%.

Mate, we appreciate your business acumen and commercial awareness and as someone whose commercial awareness is relatively specific and limited I appreciate you offering us that perspective in this discussion. Same with RS4 for that matter. I just feel there's no need to express it so aggressively. From your point of view we might seem like irrational, over-reacting, drama queens, but we're naive with these kind of things, we don't have the kind of experience in similar matters that you do so we just see the numbers and find them quite frightening.

Anyway, we're just being petty now and going off-track, so back to the issues at hand, Hicks is a cunt is he?

[Dhav]

As far as the media storm is concerned the stupid mistake they made is the equivalent of putting up the crap posters in the hairdressers window advertising the circus.

If you want to know who's turned us into a media circus then we just need to look at ourselves. We lap up every in interview and quote as a reason to spout more bile-loaded crap about stuff most of us have no clue. We take every newspaper report, refresh Newsnow every 10 seconds, religiously watch SSN reveal the next days back pages every night and post it all in verbatim and dissect and analyse it as if it's gospel. And the outrage and bile grows even more and the media lap it up and produce more articles designed to to stimulate the fans (and they are well aware that there are millions of us around the world) that lets them produce more articles to sell more papers. The forums grow, the blogs grow and the papers and tv lap it up as we tune in to every station and media report to see that media outlets reaction and we call it a "public reaction" without any reason to believe it's the case. And the Manure and Bitter fans lap it up and the media just goes on selling more outrageous stories for those millions of fans as well.

Just to be clear, I'm no G&H supporter and they do concern me a great deal, especially Hick's history and the fact the financial return of finishing higher than 4th is probably smaller than the investment needed to achieve it. Perhaps. But the only mistake they've made in terms of a media circus was being stupid enough to read the firework instructions with a match instead of a torch and now it's hard to stop it exploding. The problem is people (including us) just love a firework display.

OK end rant (not aimed at you Dhav just a response to this "media circus" stuff)

Logically it makes a lot of sense that they wouldn't shaft the club but similarly if they did and walked away they are unlikely to actually lose much money (they wouldn't make much either) and as it's in a different country it's unlikely to effect their business worthiness in the US either.

Fair comment mate, even if I do not necessarily agree. Yes the press/media have picked up the baton and ran with this story, but sadly I fear most of what they are reporting is factual and not particularly exaggerrated. I have my reasons for thinking that, although I would rather not divulge them.

But it has come to the point where the club and its owners are being criticised left right and centre, by Ferguson, by Moyes, by Curbishley, even Derby have come out and held us up as an example of how they do not want to do things. Like it or not, we have become a laughing stock, and it seems to me the yanks have done little in the way of damage limitations

[MattB]

Probably more bollocks, but...

American businessman Robert Kraft admits he has not ruled out a possible takeover of Liverpool.

Kraft owns American football side New England Patriots and Major League Soccer outfit New England Revolution.

And Kraft - who is founder, chairman and chief executive of the Kraft Group - was strongly linked with a bid to buy the Reds before the Merseyside club was taken over by fellow Americans George Gillett and Tom Hicks for £470million in 2007.

However, Gillett and Hicks are rumoured to be unsettled on Merseyside following Liverpool's lacklustre form and a much publicised bust-up with manager Rafa Benitez regarding the club's January transfer policy.

Gillett and Hicks

Dubai International Capital are thought to remain interested in a bid to buy out Gillett and Hicks, after withdrawing from the race to own the Reds last year, and Kraft has now hinted that he could also consider a takeover at Anfield.

"We haven't ruled it out completely," Kraft told Sky Sports News.

"But I'm worried a little bit. I want to be able to win whatever we do. But there are no rules in terms of spending on players.

"We would never want to be in a business where we couldn't compete and right now some of the structure doesn't allow you to compete on a level playing field."

Moores meeting

And Kraft admits he has met with David Moores, who was Liverpool chairman before selling his stake to Gillett and Hicks and is now a director at Anfield, in the past.

"I spent a lot of time with Mr Moores and his group in Liverpool and we know something about building an opportunity," Kraft added.

"The fan base in Liverpool is a lot like the fan base of the Patriots when we bought them.

"They are dedicated fans if you give them a quality product and they know you are doing their best to win."

[Pacman]

Probably more bollocks, but...

American businessman Robert Kraft admits he has not ruled out a possible takeover of Liverpool.

Kraft owns American football side New England Patriots and Major League Soccer outfit New England Revolution.

And Kraft - who is founder, chairman and chief executive of the Kraft Group - was strongly linked with a bid to buy the Reds before the Merseyside club was taken over by fellow Americans George Gillett and Tom Hicks for £470million in 2007.

However, Gillett and Hicks are rumoured to be unsettled on Merseyside following Liverpool's lacklustre form and a much publicised bust-up with manager Rafa Benitez regarding the club's January transfer policy.

Gillett and Hicks

Dubai International Capital are thought to remain interested in a bid to buy out Gillett and Hicks, after withdrawing from the race to own the Reds last year, and Kraft has now hinted that he could also consider a takeover at Anfield.

"We haven't ruled it out completely," Kraft told Sky Sports News.

"But I'm worried a little bit. I want to be able to win whatever we do. But there are no rules in terms of spending on players.

"We would never want to be in a business where we couldn't compete and right now some of the structure doesn't allow you to compete on a level playing field."

Moores meeting

And Kraft admits he has met with David Moores, who was Liverpool chairman before selling his stake to Gillett and Hicks and is now a director at Anfield, in the past.

"I spent a lot of time with Mr Moores and his group in Liverpool and we know something about building an opportunity," Kraft added.

"The fan base in Liverpool is a lot like the fan base of the Patriots when we bought them.

"They are dedicated fans if you give them a quality product and they know you are doing their best to win."

Now Kraft is a different kettle of fish.

[dawmdt]

I didn't mean to. I just get very pissed off about all this.

I have been independent for almost 20 years and with 3 others I started a company where we had to put up collateral. It turned into a monster with 150 employees and lost a lot of money. We we very close to personally losing about 1,7 mill pounds. We had an angel come in at the very last second for 50% of the shares and safe us. I know what collateral means in every nasty aspect of the word.

If LFC can't meet payments G&H will be forced to cover the interest. There is no getting away from that. The alternative, diluting the squad, makes no sense considering the position they are in. They must keep us competivtive to get a decent return on their investment later on. To suggest that they would be OK with a midtable position is nonsense. These guys might be a lot of thing but stupid is not one of them.

I'm absolutely confident that they will strengthen the squad next window. 110%.

I'm inclined to agree... people forget the banks have an involvement in this as well. Consider mortgages... you can't make massive structural changes to your home without your lenders permission, quite simply because they have a vested interest in it.

The same is almost certainly true here. I cannot see RBS or Wachovia sit by and watch them strip LFC of its most valuable assets (including top class players) to make interest payments, run the thing into the ground, let it go bankrupt and then piss off leaving the banks to try and scratch around for a buyer of a club with half arsed players, falling support and a crumbling building site to cover their losses in the loan. Won't happen, the banks aren't stupid. You can be certain that the financial agreement is stitched up tighter than a swan's flange. For example, it's been reported that the financial agreement stipulates that G&H must meet shortfalls in interest payments themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if it also states they cannot sell club assets to do so.

I don't know Wachovia very well but I do know RBS very well and they are very big on their public perception - they will not want any part of the collapse of one of the world's biggest football clubs with millions of global supporters (all of whom are potential customers).

[AFII]

I'm inclined to agree... people forget the banks have an involvement in this as well. Consider mortgages... you can't make massive structural changes to your home without your lenders permission, quite simply because they have a vested interest in it.

The same is almost certainly true here. I cannot see RBS or Wachovia sit by and watch them strip LFC of its most valuable assets (including top class players) to make interest payments, run the thing into the ground, let it go bankrupt and then piss off leaving the banks to try and scratch around for a buyer of a club with half arsed players, falling support and a crumbling building site to cover their losses in the loan. Won't happen, the banks aren't stupid. You can be certain that the financial agreement is stitched up tighter than a swan's flange. For example, it's been reported that the financial agreement stipulates that G&H must meet shortfalls in interest payments themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if it also states they cannot sell club assets to do so.

I don't know Wachovia very well but I do know RBS very well and they are very big on their public perception - they will not want any part of the collapse of one of the world's biggest football clubs with millions of global supporters (all of whom are potential customers).

Maybe the banks have an understanding with DIC that they will buy the club if G&H can't pay the interest.

[Red Chilli]

Now Kraft is a different kettle of fish.

Has he got the money though?

[AFII]

Has he got the money though?

"We would never want to be in a business where we couldn't compete

He would have someone who would back him up.