Dubai International to make bid for Liverpool FC

[CAD]

Mate, we appreciate your business acumen and commercial awareness and as someone whose commercial awareness is relatively specific and limited I appreciate you offering us that perspective in this discussion. Same with RS4 for that matter. I just feel there's no need to express it so aggressively. From your point of view we might seem like irrational, over-reacting, drama queens, but we're naive with these kind of things, we don't have the kind of experience in similar matters that you do so we just see the numbers and find them quite frightening.

Anyway, we're just being petty now and going off-track, so back to the issues at hand, Hicks is a cunt is he?

He is a cunt. From my experience all major business men are cunts. It's nothing personal just how the game works. He is however a cunt with an agenda that could very well work out to our advantage. Just like Glazer is a cunt. Seems to be working out nicely for the Scum, right?

The stadium is no1. Get that in place and the value will increase dramatically. With the increased TV money and the overall globalization I think Hicks is spot on. The value of clubs will increase significantly over the next 5 years. DIC knows that and that's the only reason they are still hanging around. They made a mistake when they left the table last time. The notion that it is because DICs no1 is a Liverpool fan is just rubbish. If they could they would buy Arsenal in a heartbeat.

If we were no1 in the league right now I'm pretty sure that all this wouldn't even be an issue tbh. Not on this scale anyway.

Bottom line. This has the potential to go either way. If the assessment from Hicks turns out to be wrong and the market drops over the next 5 years things could get dicey. As I see it they would probably be thrown into a forced exit. I believe that the overall brand of LFC would allow us to land on our feet in a worst case scenario. If they started to dilute the squad the reaction from fans would make it impossible to stay in charge. Just look at the reaction to this loan, pretty straight forward stuff, and then multiply with 100. Like Hicks say: the fans in Liverpool are nothing like the fans in America. The passion for the club would be of such consequences that even Hicks would probably fear the outcome. Gillett certainly seems too timid to handle the murder threats etc etc.

I believe that they know that they have to keep us competitive to stay in charge. As I stated once or twice it makes good business sense as well.

What is it they would gain by driving us into the ground?

As long as the cunts wants what we wants, namely success, we have a chance to gain from this situation. I'm not saying it's picture perfect but I have to say that I find the current situation tolerable.

If the proposed dilution of the squad comes into play I'll be the first to dust off my AK47 and scream Jihad. I just don't believe that will happen. It would defy logic.

[MattB]

Judging by this, No...

"But I'm worried a little bit. I want to be able to win whatever we do. But there are no rules in terms of spending on players.

"We would never want to be in a business where we couldn't compete and right now some of the structure doesn't allow you to compete on a level playing field."

[danwms]

Do you think Hicks has got his mate Kraft to put this story out to put some pressure on DIC??

[CAD]

I'm inclined to agree... people forget the banks have an involvement in this as well. Consider mortgages... you can't make massive structural changes to your home without your lenders permission, quite simply because they have a vested interest in it.

The same is almost certainly true here. I cannot see RBS or Wachovia sit by and watch them strip LFC of its most valuable assets (including top class players) to make interest payments, run the thing into the ground, let it go bankrupt and then piss off leaving the banks to try and scratch around for a buyer of a club with half arsed players, falling support and a crumbling building site to cover their losses in the loan. Won't happen, the banks aren't stupid. You can be certain that the financial agreement is stitched up tighter than a swan's flange. For example, it's been reported that the financial agreement stipulates that G&H must meet shortfalls in interest payments themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if it also states they cannot sell club assets to do so.

I don't know Wachovia very well but I do know RBS very well and they are very big on their public perception - they will not want any part of the collapse of one of the world's biggest football clubs with millions of global supporters (all of whom are potential customers).

Wachovia is the the fourth biggest bank in America. You are spot on in every way. There is no way they would sit idle by if G&Hs started to dilute the squad. The interest will be paid by G&H if need be. Nothing else makes any sense.

[AFII]

Do you think Hicks has got his mate Kraft to put this story out to put some pressure on DIC??

I didn't knew that Hicks and Kraft are mates. Maybe he will buy out Gillett in that case to help out building the stadium and get the best possible price for the name of the stadium.

Would be funny in a kind of way, Kraft buys out Gillett and names the stadium The Gillette stadium.

[disco]

Has he got the money though?

Yes, albeit tied up in businesses....

[Neil Young]

As far as the media storm is concerned the stupid mistake they made is the equivalent of putting up the crap posters in the hairdressers window advertising the circus.

If you want to know who's turned us into a media circus then we just need to look at ourselves. We lap up every in interview and quote as a reason to spout more bile-loaded crap about stuff most of us have no clue. We take every newspaper report, refresh Newsnow every 10 seconds, religiously watch SSN reveal the next days back pages every night and post it all in verbatim and dissect and analyse it as if it's gospel. And the outrage and bile grows even more and the media lap it up and produce more articles designed to to stimulate the fans (and they are well aware that there are millions of us around the world) that lets them produce more articles to sell more papers. The forums grow, the blogs grow and the papers and tv lap it up as we tune in to every station and media report to see that media outlets reaction and we call it a "public reaction" without any reason to believe it's the case. And the Manure and Bitter fans lap it up and the media just goes on selling more outrageous stories for those millions of fans as well.

Just to be clear, I'm no G&H supporter and they do concern me a great deal, especially Hick's history and the fact the financial return of finishing higher than 4th is probably smaller than the investment needed to achieve it. Perhaps. But the only mistake they've made in terms of a media circus was being stupid enough to read the firework instructions with a match instead of a torch and now it's hard to stop it exploding. The problem is people (including us) just love a firework display.

OK end rant (not aimed at you Dhav just a response to this "media circus" stuff)

Logically it makes a lot of sense that they wouldn't shaft the club but similarly if they did and walked away they are unlikely to actually lose much money (they wouldn't make much either) and as it's in a different country it's unlikely to effect their business worthiness in the US either.

I agree we're complicit in the media circus crap.

I don't think that absolves Hicks (and Gillett) from any blame in their dangerous stewardship of the club so far. I think you're being too soft on them.

[CAD]

I didn't knew that Hicks and Kraft are mates. Maybe he will buy out Gillett in that case to help out building the stadium and get the best possible price for the name of the stadium.

Would be funny in a kind of way, Kraft buys out Gillett and names the stadium The Gillette stadium.

The Gillette stadium? Why on earth would he call it that? Don't you even know that Gillett has nothing to do with razor Gillette?

[AFII]

The Gillette stadium? Why on earth would he call it that? Don't you even know that Gillett has nothing to do with razor Gillette?

I know that, that's why I said in a kind of way

[AFII]

Dawn of a new Liverpool FC era - one fans feared they'd never witness

Jan 30 2008 by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

THE events of January 25 this year were dreaded by many Liverpool FC fans. It was the day when American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett revealed they had completed a deal that loaded £105m of debt on to the club.

Many fear it marks the beginning of the end of what had traditionally been a family club, now left vulnerable to the whims of the market.

The debt on the club was part of a wider £350m deal that also saw the co-owners taking on £245m through their Kop Football Holdings company, and will see around £30m in interest being paid annually.

Liverpool FC will be responsible for its chunk, and Hicks and Gillett for that of Kop – so goes the theory.

But the two Americans are businessmen and will not want to sink money endlessly into the club.

A spokesman for Mr Hicks has implied that Liverpool FC would be expected to help fund the total interest, but in a situation where there was a shortfall Hicks and Gillett were “prepared to fund whatever was required”.

The Daily Post can reveal that the financial plan also includes “significant funds” for transfers in the summer.

But the lack of explicit statements on future funding has left many fans fearing Liverpool’s future ambitions could be weighed down with a chunky debt.

Liverpool FC has not been very good at making profits in recent years.

Kop Football Holdings, set up by Gillett and Hicks to buy LFC, is yet to file its first set of accounts – they are due in May.

But looking at the previous accounts the club made a loss in two out of three of the previous years. In 2004, when the club did not qualify for the Champions League, a loss of £21.9m was recorded.

Even when the club won the Champions League in 2005, it only made a profit of £9.4m, and this was later restated as £500,000.

In the latest available accounts, 2006, the loss was £9.7m.

It would appear that servicing the debt out of club profits is currently out of the question.

A new stadium would, of course, help bring in extra cash, as would increased revenue from future TV deals.

Anfield currently seats 45,000, while the new stadium could potentially accommodate 71,000 fans.

Based on an average ticket price of £30, the club could make £2.1m from every home game.

If the club were to only play the min- imum 19 Premier League matches, its revenues would still increase by £14.8m a year with sell- outs, even before additional corporate hospitality profits.

It is understood the club will also look to secure a huge naming rights deal of around £100m, similar to Arsenal’s Emirates deal.

Last night, a source said “modest” ticket price rises were factored into the refinancing deal.

Success on the field is a key component – more matches equal more cash.

At the moment, it would appear that Hicks and Gillett are willing to make “losses” on Liverpool for the time being until the stadium investment starts to pay off.

Neil Blankstone, a director of Blankstone Sington, a stockbroking firm that specialised in buying and selling Liverpool FC shares when it was a public company, said he was not overly worried about the new deal: “One would assume that it is reasonably important [to qualify for the Champions League].

“But they could probably afford to miss one, even two years, in a five- year period.”

Mr Blankstone, who has been an observer of Liverpool FC’s affairs for the past 20 years, said a dividend could be paid to the owners to service their section of the debt.

“But a dividend can only be paid if the club makes a profit.”

It is success for Liverpool FC on the field which will bring success for their co-owners off it. For now, the pair will fall and rise as one.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...4375-20410902/

[CAD]

Neil Blankstone, a director of Blankstone Sington, a stockbroking firm that specialised in buying and selling Liverpool FC shares when it was a public company, said he was not overly worried about the new deal.

[dww]

Neil Blankstone, a director of Blankstone Sington, a stockbroking firm that specialised in buying and selling Liverpool FC shares when it was a public company, said he was not overly worried about the new deal.

I take it he was talking about the current 18 month doodad? I'm pretty confident that is fine it is the longer term future which is the issue for me. The trouble being that at this stage even if G&H had a great plan and articulated it given their decpetions already it would be hard to believe them.

[disco]

Neil Blankstone, a director of Blankstone Sington, a stockbroking firm that specialised in buying and selling Liverpool FC shares when it was a public company, said he was not overly worried about the new deal.

It's interesting that most people 'not overly worried' work in finance in some way, perhaps we've seen these sort of deals before.

However, unless he has access to more recent information that we are not privy to, this doesn't mean he's right...

[desertscouser]

Now Kraft is a different kettle of fish.

I've met Daniel Kraft and my uncle has known him for a number of years. The Krafts (through IFP) are in the same business as I am. I just finished completing a deal with them recently. Very good people.

[Rashid]

I'd love Kraft but owning a Premiership team is expensive business.