I believe it is time for a new manager!

[Darth Marty]

Fair enough and some good points. Regarding the transfer targets I would also rather the likes of Villa, Silva, hell even Ronaldhino approached, lets get 2-3 top top players rather than 5-6 potentially good players. I will also say Ramsey is already very good and could be a potential world beater, Bentley is just what we need and Barry & Jones would make an improvement to our squad. But on the whole on the transfer issue I tend to agree with you.

[Tee]

Rafa knows what he is doing - he is learning from his mistakes and closing the gap on the top 3 every year. Changing Manager now would be a complete and utter disaster requiring another 4 or 5 year period of a new Manager 'rebuilding'.

**** that, Rafa has done more than ok in my eyes since he took over, and if you look at the bigger picture the club is improving on the field where it matters. The only reason we are short of truly challenging right now is because we cannot compete financially.

In a few years time we may not need to compete financially because some of the gems Rafa has signed at youth level will hopefully start filtering into the first team.

Let the Rafalution continue.. Viva La Rafalution!!!!!!!!!!!

[rage]

We finished 30 points off the champions before Rafa took over and looked to be going nowhere as a team. We're currently 11 points behind the leaders, are progressing as a team, a couple of major trophies better off and constantly challenge to win the European cup.

In general you seem to have a kid in a sweetshop approach to things, 'but I want that'. Winning the league takes a monumental effort and patient progress unless you have massive financial backing. We can't just have it because we want it.

well if its progress 4th is worse than 3rd.

oh and what i want is for rafa to stop squandering our money on mediocre and limited players - as far as i'm concerned it all adds up.

for instance leto, lucas and yossi adds up to 13 odd million last year. i'm not saying any of them are bad players but they haven't improved our ability to compete significantly enough. from where i'm sat 13 million is 50% of alves or villa or most of silva etc. i'd rather save my pennies and put it towards quality over spending my money in this manner this transfer window.

[RedReet]

He needs to pick his side according to form a little more than he does, in order to give players an incentive to perform and the knowledge that if they play well, they will stay in the side for the most part.

Good point. Nothing guarantees getting dropped for the next game better than putting in a good performance. Likewise, if you get a second goal during a game, you only get a few minutes more at most to get the third, before you’re subbed.

It must be quite demoralising for the fringe players, just ask Crouch.

[Red_Polo]

well if its progress 4th is worse than 3rd.

oh and what i want is for rafa to stop squandering our money on mediocre and limited players - as far as i'm concerned it all adds up.

for instance leto, lucas and yossi adds up to 13 odd million last year. i'm not saying any of them are bad players but they haven't improved our ability to compete significantly enough. from where i'm sat 13 million is 50% of alves or villa or most of silva etc. i'd rather save my pennies and put it towards quality over spending my money in this manner this transfer window.

Did you read the first line of my post re situation when Rafa took over compared to now? 3rd -> 4th, well another way of looking at it is 11 points off the top rather than 21. In any case, progress is not always linear, what is crucial is that the big picture is one of progression.

As for transfer policy, if you want to make the point the balance is a bit off and we should be spending a slightly greater proportion on players to slot into the first team, I won't really disagree. Whining about one £3m bid for a talented prospect on the other hand, is a bit extreme.

[rage]

Did you read the first line of my post re situation when Rafa took over compared to now? 3rd -> 4th, well another way of looking at it is 11 points off the top rather than 21. In any case, progress is not always linear, what is crucial is that the big picture is one of progression.

in 2001 we finished 7 points off the title, suppose the big picture depends on the parameters of the frame.

i agree we are a better team this year than last - torres, masch, babel and skertl is progression


As for transfer policy, if you want to make the point the balance is a bit off and we should be spending a slightly greater proportion on players to slot into the first team, I won't really disagree. Whining about one £3m bid for a talented prospect on the other hand, is a bit extreme.

3 mllion would have been the difference between alves or not 2 years ago.

[Craig_H]

Did you read the first line of my post re situation when Rafa took over compared to now? 3rd -> 4th, well another way of looking at it is 11 points off the top rather than 21. In any case, progress is not always linear, what is crucial is that the big picture is one of progression.

As for transfer policy, if you want to make the point the balance is a bit off and we should be spending a slightly greater proportion on players to slot into the first team, I won't really disagree. Whining about one £3m bid for a talented prospect on the other hand, is a bit extreme.

It does add up though Polo. Granted £3m isnt much, but when it's £3m here, £7m there, another £3m elsewhere, then it's a tidy sum.

That, along with overly obsessive rotation, is my biggest issue with Rafa.

[Craig_H]

3 mllion would have been the difference between alves or not 2 years ago.

Good point, to be fair.

[Red_Polo]

We're talking about Rafa though (see thread title), and I'm reasonably sure Rafa didn't take over in 2001

As for 3 million being the difference between getting Alves and not - we'd heard that before and upped our bid, they just said it all over again. Anyway, I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. Spending is inevitably some kind of balance between buying players based of differing levels of current ability and potential. You seem to take the view that any spending on potential is stupid because it means we miss out on someone, but the fact is there will always be players we can't afford. Suggesting the balance is wrong I can understand, but the idea that because we could miss out on a 1st XI player we shouldn't spend anything whatsoever on youth strikes me as a tad extreme.

[Joe King]

The mammoth tasks that Rafael Benitez has ahead of him in terms of the league are the bottomless pit of rubles that of a Mr Abramovich and the armpit of Malcolm Glazer who have continued to exploit the world with their brand. These two colossal giants have vasts amounts of riches which would essentially mean that they could acquire or kidnap some of the promising talent (and supporters) from around the world or the Algarve for Manchester United. Both clubs can spend in higher tiers of the footballing market; risk free and can allow themselves the odd mistake or two as they have a strong army of footballers at the club who can do pretty much a dandy job whilst Liverpool have to ensure the signings they make are going to hit the Anfield turf running packed with 400bhp very much like The Kid from the Spanish capital.

Benitez's two major acquisitions over the past year of Javier Mascherano and Fernando Torres have been a gigantic success for the Merseyside club as they are building what many at Anfield believe to be the spine of the side and a side which looks promising in the future. A spine which would consist of Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Torres at a total combination of around £68m. Not bad, I guess and only one Spaniard to boot. If the spine wasn't an inclination of the Gaffer's future then I don't know what is. Maybe he was laying the foundation for Mourinho so he can play the awesome 1 in 16 striker Robert Huth.

A load of codswallop in my opinion. Consistency breeds success in large organisations.

Benitez's success is unprecedented in Europe. Find me a current manager in the same amount of time with that record. The man is a genius in pressure situations and relishes the cat and mouse that is the big cheese of club football: Champions League. There is something in the air in those nights, the Liverpool stars are ever so bright. There seems to be some sort of magic in those nights. Benitez has opened an untapped lamp and released this genie for all to admire. Liverpool are a beast of a side in those midweek European games where we see some masterful tactics working up a beaut.

The youngsters just won the reserve league, the U18s were Youth Cup champions in consecutive seasons, further evidence of his work for the future of the club. Stick around with him and sing his song like the rest of faithful. He has had a torrid year full with turbulence and questioning over his lack of managerial skill. Benitez is building a dynasty at the club, a club which we all love, admire and care with a passion. Rome wasn't built in a day, Old Trafford wasn't built in a day so it certainly isn't going to be a quick fix with a change in manager. Viva la Rafalution!

[Craig_H]

We're talking about Rafa though (see thread title), and I'm reasonably sure Rafa didn't take over in 2001

As for 3 million being the difference between getting Alves and not - we'd heard that before and upped our bid, they just said it all over again. Anyway, I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. Spending is inevitably some kind of balance between buying players based of differing levels of current ability and potential. You seem to take the view that any spending on potential is stupid because it means we miss out on someone, but the fact is there will always be players we can't afford. Suggesting the balance is wrong I can understand, but the idea that because we could miss out on a 1st XI player we shouldn't spend anything whatsoever on youth strikes me as a tad extreme.

It's not just youth, it's players who are obviously not going to be nailed on first teamers. Pennant, Benayoun, Lucas....that's £20m right there. Have those three (combined) contributed anywhere near as much as a 'superstar' in the Torres mould would've done? Nobody can say for sure, but i find it hard to make a case for the affirmative.

[Craig_H]

The mammoth tasks that Rafael Benitez has ahead of him in terms of the league are the bottomless pit of rubles that of a Mr Abramovich and the armpit of Malcolm Glazer who have continued to exploit the world with their brand. These two colossal giants have vasts amounts of riches which would essentially mean that they could acquire or kidnap some of the promising talent (and supporters) from around the world or the Algarve for Manchester United. Both clubs can spend in higher tiers of the footballing market; risk free and can allow themselves the odd mistake or two as they have a strong army of footballers at the club who can do pretty much a dandy job whilst Liverpool have to ensure the signings they make are going to hit the Anfield turf running packed with 400bhp very much like The Kid from the Spanish capital.

Benitez's two major acquisitions over the past year of Javier Mascherano and Fernando Torres have been a gigantic success for the Merseyside club as they are building what many at Anfield believe to be the spine of the side and a side which looks promising in the future. A spine which would consist of Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Mascherano, Babel, Torres at a total combination of around £68m. Not bad, I guess and only one Spaniard to boot. If the spine wasn't an inclination of the Gaffer's future then I don't know what is. Maybe he was laying the foundation for Mourinho so he can play the awesome 1 in 16 striker Robert Huth.

A load of codswallop in my opinion. Consistency breeds success in large organisations.

Benitez's success is unprecedented in Europe. Find me a current manager in the same amount of time with that record. The man is a genius in pressure situations and relishes the cat and mouse that is the big cheese of club football: Champions League. There is something in the air in those nights, the Liverpool stars are ever so bright. There seems to be some sort of magic in those nights. Benitez has opened an untapped lamp and released this genie for all to admire. Liverpool are a beast of a side in those midweek European games where we see some masterful tactics working up a beaut.

The youngsters just won the reserve league, the U18s were Youth Cup champions in consecutive seasons, further evidence of his work for the future of the club. Stick around with him and sing his song like the rest of faithful. He has had a torrid year full with turbulence and questioning over his lack of managerial skill. Benitez is building a dynasty at the club, a club which we all love, admire and care with a passion. Rome wasn't built in a day, Old Trafford wasn't built in a day so it certainly isn't going to be a quick fix with a change in manager. Viva la Rafalution!

Where did you copy and paste that from?

[Joe King]

Where did you copy and paste that from?

I wrote that

My best piece. I should work for the Guardian or become Tomkins' understudy.

[Red_Polo]

It does add up though Polo. Granted £3m isnt much, but when it's £3m here, £7m there, another £3m elsewhere, then it's a tidy sum.

That, along with overly obsessive rotation, is my biggest issue with Rafa.

We've not even signed this one kid let alone another for it to 'all add up' to a tidy sum. It's moaning about something that hasn't even happened. As I said, whining about one £3m bid is a bit extreme.

[Craig_H]

You're about 6 chapters too short for Tomkins' level.