I believe it is time for a new manager!

[Red_Polo]

he took over a team that finished 4th in the league - this year we've finished 4th in the league. granted the calibre of players are better, no doubt, but five years ago we were crying out for a winger, better fullbacks and someone creative to play alongside owen. today we're still crying out for a quality winger, better fullbacks and someone creative to play behind torres.

not enough has changed imo. we seem to have forgotten the good things that happened under houllier.

i have no doubt whatsoever that this will be rafa's last chance....players like barry and jones, ffs jones!!! will mean he blows it

We finished 30 points off the champions before Rafa took over and looked to be going nowhere as a team. We're currently 11 points behind the leaders, are progressing as a team, a couple of major trophies better off and constantly challenge to win the European cup.

In general you seem to have a kid in a sweetshop approach to things, 'but I want that'. Winning the league takes a monumental effort and patient progress unless you have massive financial backing. We can't just have it because we want it.

[Craig_H]

Only just seen this thread, thought it was a manc windup.

Rafa's got a few things he needs to tweak and learn from, but sacking him would be absurd.

[El Jefecito]

Only just seen this thread, thought it was a manc windup.

Rafa's got a few things he needs to tweak and learn from, but sacking him would be absurd.

What would you say is the biggest tweak required? For me it is early season rotation.

[Craig_H]

We finished 30 points off the champions before Rafa took over and looked to be going nowhere as a team. We're currently 11 points behind the leaders, are progressing as a team, a couple of major trophies better off and constantly challenge to win the European cup.

In general you seem to have a kid in a sweetshop approach to things, 'but I want that'. Winning the league takes a monumental effort and patient progress unless you have massive financial backing. We can't just have it because we want it.

Tend to agree, but i do also think that while we're lacking a bit in terms of being champions, Rafa's not quite getting as much out of what he has to work with, as i think he could. There's not a huge amount in it, mind.

[Marky]

What a load of ****ing bollocks.

[El Jefecito]

What a load of ****ing bollocks.

Elaborate.

[Craig_H]

What would you say is the biggest tweak required? For me it is early season rotation.

Not sure about 'early season' because i think the reason he stopped rotating in the latter stages of the season is simply that we only had one competition we could still win. He said as much himself.

I have no issue with rotation in itself. He needs to limit it to 3-4 changes between games MAXIMUM. Not 6 or 7, which he HAS done on occasion.

He also needs to play players in their most comfortable positions. He needs to pick his side according to form a little more than he does, in order to give players an incentive to perform and the knowledge that if they play well, they will stay in the side for the most part.

And he needs to maintain as much stability and continuity of system as possible.

Oh...and he needs to realise that Voronin isnt any good. You get what you pay for most of the time and he's a prime example of that.

[Marky]

Elaborate.

The title thread says it all El.

[Shanks]

Only just seen this thread, thought it was a manc windup.

It is and he is.

See my post above.

[El Jefecito]

Not sure about 'early season' because i think the reason he stopped rotating in the latter stages of the season is simply that we only had one competition we could still win. He said as much himself.

I have no issue with rotation in itself. He needs to limit it to 3-4 changes between games MAXIMUM. Not 6 or 7, which he HAS done on occasion.

He also needs to play players in their most comfortable positions. He needs to pick his side according to form a little more than he does, in order to give players an incentive to perform and the knowledge that if they play well, they will stay in the side for the most part.

And he needs to maintain as much stability and continuity of system as possible.

Oh...and he needs to realise that Voronin isnt any good. You get what you pay for most of the time and he's a prime example of that.

Crux of the message though is that rotation needs to be managed better and I agree. Not sure Rafa does though. Hopefully, the squad will be trimmed and the opportunities for excessive rotation will be therefore minimised.

I also think he uses the beginning of the season to size up his new signings as long as we bring in a few world class players rather than millions of squad players it would minimze that type of rotation.

[El Jefecito]

The title thread says it all El.

With you and 110% agree

[Craig_H]

Crux of the message though is that rotation needs to be managed better and I agree. Not sure Rafa does though. Hopefully, the squad will be trimmed and the opportunities for excessive rotation will be therefore minimised.

I also think he uses the beginning of the season to size up his new signings as long as we bring in a few world class players rather than millions of squad players it would minimze that type of rotation.

I know you're not specifically saying that he's checking out his new signings in early league games as such, but if there's ANY of that going on, it's poor for me. He has to be convinced of these players before they sign. Now i wouldnt say that he's waiting to make up his mind after they've signed, but i dont think there should be any specific attempts to 'size them up' in the league campaign. While pre-season isnt as accurate a barometer as there is, that is the time to 'size up' new signings. Maybe 3rd round of the carling cup too against lower opposition, but not in the league.

The PL is at the point now where you simply have no margin for error. You have to amass close to 90 points and that allows (give or take a few points) you to drop 25 or so, 30 at an absolute push. You cant afford to drop points because someone you're sizing up turns out to be not very good.

IMO, the only times Rafa shouldnt play his strongest side in the PL is for the likes of Derby, Fulham, Sunderland etc at home. That's all.

[El Jefecito]

I know you're not specifically saying that he's checking out his new signings in early league games as such, but if there's ANY of that going on, it's poor for me. He has to be convinced of these players before they sign. Now i wouldnt say that he's waiting to make up his mind after they've signed, but i dont think there should be any specific attempts to 'size them up' in the league campaign. While pre-season isnt as accurate a barometer as there is, that is the time to 'size up' new signings. Maybe 3rd round of the carling cup too against lower opposition, but not in the league.

The PL is at the point now where you simply have no margin for error. You have to amass close to 90 points and that allows (give or take a few points) you to drop 25 or so, 30 at an absolute push. You cant afford to drop points because someone you're sizing up turns out to be not very good.

IMO, the only times Rafa shouldnt play his strongest side in the PL is for the likes of Derby, Fulham, Sunderland etc at home. That's all.

See I think he has been, that's why I want to minimise squad changes or he will be doing the same again and potentially sacraficing points at the beginning of the season. The testing of new players was particularly evident in the season that he signed Bellamy.

My advice, stick to 4231, get someone in who can score goals and get assists in Kuyts position and we will be much better off.

[Craig_H]

See I think he has been, that's why I want to minimise squad changes or he will be doing the same again and potentially sacraficing points at the beginning of the season. The testing of new players was particularly evident in the season that he signed Bellamy.

My advice, stick to 4231, get someone in who can score goals and get assists in Kuyts position and we will be much better off.

Well if he has, then that's a poor show, IMO.

Agree with the rest of your posts. Imagine a quick, strong, goalscoring & creating RW in that lineup :drool:

[rage]

If only things were as black & white as it is in Rages world. We were struggling to qualify year after year before Rafa, with a seriously **** squad and no chance of european success at all, if the uefa cup isnt included that is. We are now looked upon as one of the current european giants and its based on our achievements of the past 4 years, not the past 24 years. If you cant see that then its pointless me saying anything else on the matter.

i remember a season we finished second. imo if houllier hadn't had that heart attack we would have gone on to great things under him.

we were one bad substitution away from what a semi final when leverkuesen knocked us out after litmanen had got a great goal.

i'm 100% certain that if rafa doesn't compete in the league this year he'll come under immense pressure to resign or indeed be sacked. I don't want that to happen, to minimise this he needs to spend his limited funds on the quality needed to compete next season. in my world this isn't about things being black or white, i call it prioritising!

come on who really wants to see our limited funds spent on the likes of barry, jones, bentley and this kid from cardiff? thats 40 odd million.