Kuyt to make the difference?

[rage]

A lot of this is down to how Rafa plays him. He's either playing deep in a 4411 or in a 4231. Both of those have far more defensive requirements than when he played in a 433 where he scored far more goals. Watch him for Holland, he gets into the box far more often. I think he is a victim of Rafa's tactics, but he still does enough to deserve his place ...... to this point.

i watched him for holland in the world cup before he joined us, he was ****e.

for the record i hope he has a brilliant tournament and then he may, just may be able to save his liverpool career

[Nic83]

I'd be interested to see how kuyt is viewed on other team's sites. Obviously not sites like Everton and UTD but neutrals

[Shaggy]

I'd be interested to see how kuyt is viewed on other team's sites. Obviously not sites like Everton and UTD but neutrals

Very poorly in my experience. In real life that is, not on other sites.

Having said that, in Kuyt's defence, I often find non-LFC fans have a very skewed perception of our players. Infuriatingly many think Arbeloa is ****e, and many thought Riise was one of our better players.

Although of course in this case I agree with "the neutrals".

I got a text from an Oldham fan during one European game this season that said "Kuyt is so **** that he's almost good!"

[rage]

Very poorly in my experience. In real life that is, not on other sites.

Having said that, in Kuyt's defence, I often find non-LFC fans have a very skewed perception of our players. Infuriatingly many think Arbeloa is ****e, and many thought Riise was one of our better players.

Although of course in this case I agree with "the neutrals".

I got a text from an Oldham fan during one European game this season that said "Kuyt is so **** that he's almost good!"

they have fans? **** i went to boundary park once, ****in freezing place.

most neutrals like riise for how he broke smith's leg with a football i'd think

[Nic83]

Very poorly in my experience. In real life that is, not on other sites.

Having said that, in Kuyt's defence, I often find non-LFC fans have a very skewed perception of our players. Infuriatingly many think Arbeloa is ****e, and many thought Riise was one of our better players.

Although of course in this case I agree with "the neutrals".

I got a text from an Oldham fan during one European game this season that said "Kuyt is so **** that he's almost good!"

Yeah interestingly enough my sisters boyfriend who is a manc fan actually rates him. A mate of mine though floods my phone with texts every game ripping him to pieces!

[El Jefecito]

i watched him for holland in the world cup before he joined us, he was ****e.

for the record i hope he has a brilliant tournament and then he may, just may be able to save his liverpool career

So describe to me the difference in his play in a 433 vs. a 4231. Just trying to get a feel for whether or not your analysis is purely superficial.

[Nic83]

I do remember looking at Kuyt for Holland in the WC and praying he didn't sign for us. Then when he did, he was decent for a while but now...

[El Jefecito]

Lets face it. Kuyt, although limited, adds value in our formation, tactics and Rafa's general approach. Would he get a place in the others in the top 4? No. Can we improve on him? Yes. Should we get rid of him? Hell no. His sort of mentality, by a process of osmosis enhances the rest of the team not to mention that there are some games, where you just need someone like him.

[Nic83]

Rate him or don't rate him, Robbie Keane would offer everything kuyt would offer in that position but with quality on the ball and goalscoring abilty, creativity and flair on top of that. so my point is he really just takes up a place in the starting 11. He hampers us truth be told. The odd game, he may be useful for but as I said, if you can get someone else who works as hard and has quality on top, what's the point in having kuyt

[El Jefecito]

Rate him or don't rate him, Robbie Keane would offer everything kuyt would offer in that position but with quality on the ball and goalscoring abilty, creativity and flair on top of that. so my point is he really just takes up a place in the starting 11. He hampers us truth be told. The odd game, he may be useful for but as I said, if you can get someone else who works as hard and has quality on top, what's the point in having kuyt

****ing, Doube Wow! I agree. I think Keane would be class in our formation

[rage]

So describe to me the difference in his play in a 433 vs. a 4231. Just trying to get a feel for whether or not your analysis is purely superficial.

when i saw him in the world cup he was slow, lacked pace, limited guile poor finishing and i thought what a uninspiring dutch international, nothing like the player i had been led to believe.

when he came to us and we played him in a conventional 442 he was better for a while. problem was/is that this last season he's been woeful as a striker.

when we moved him right in a 4231 because he was **** as a striker but rafa still rated his harrying skills the same deficiencies showed as in holland's 433.

come on, in the 4231 system the likes of garcia were far far superior. he plays because everyone else we have for that role ala pennant and yossi are also midtable superstars at best.

kuyt would not get into a top 6 team either as a striker or a right sided forward. i know we've been linked with bentley and even milner - both are far superior in that role - which is more about kuyts limitations rather than their excellence. the likes of robbie keane are world class players in comparison to kuyt in every offensive department.

the growing consensus is that he is now worthy of a squad place rather than a starting 11. what i want to know is why? he sure as hell is not an impact player and if i want someone to play in the carling cup/fa cup and against weaker league opposition i'd rather have someone with potential rather than a player that has been given every opportunity and has come up short.

sell him and move on just like we did with cisse.

[El Jefecito]

when i saw him in the world cup he was slow, lacked pace, limited guile poor finishing and i thought what a uninspiring dutch international, nothing like the player i had been led to believe.

when he came to us and we played him in a conventional 442 he was better for a while. problem was/is that this last season he's been woeful as a striker.

when we moved him right in a 4231 because he was **** as a striker but rafa still rated his harrying skills the same deficiencies showed as in holland's 433.

come on, in the 4231 system the likes of garcia were far far superior. he plays because everyone else we have for that role ala pennant and yossi are also midtable superstars at best.

kuyt would not get into a top 6 team either as a striker or a right sided forward. i know we've been linked with bentley and even milner - both are far superior in that role - which is more about kuyts limitations rather than their excellence. the likes of robbie keane are world class players in comparison to kuyt in every offensive department.

the growing consensus is that he is now worthy of a squad place rather than a starting 11. what i want to know is why? he sure as hell is not an impact player and if i want someone to play in the carling cup/fa cup and against weaker league opposition i'd rather have someone with potential rather than a player that has been given every opportunity and has come up short.

sell him and move on just like we did with cisse.

Couple of points.

• He's never played in a 442. Always 4411.
• Yep, he is a squad player.
• Key to a 4231 is defence from the wide players. Garcia did **** in that regard and from a balance perspective, Kuyt is definitely better. I think some people disregard the value he adds. We conceded less shots on target than anyone else in England because of players like Kuyt.

Horses for courses, I see many positives which you obviously don't value. IMHO I think there is an element of polarised myopia on your part.

[rage]

Couple of points.

• He's never played in a 442. Always 4411.
• Yep, he is a squad player.
• Key to a 4231 is defence from the wide players. Garcia did **** in that regard and from a balance perspective, Kuyt is definitely better. I think some people disregard the value he adds. We conceded less shots on target than anyone else in England because of players like Kuyt.

Horses for courses, I see many positives which you obviously don't value.

he has led the line regardless of whether u see it as a 4411 or 442. and as for conceding less shots on target, if that was what was most important we might as well play with 4 fullbacks. insua and aurelio on the left and degan and arbeloa/finnan on the right.

come on amigo he was bought as an attacking player, he stands or falls on his offensive play.

[El Jefecito]

he has led the line regardless of whether u see it as a 4411 or 442. and as for conceding less shots on target, if that was what was most important we might as well play with 4 fullbacks. insua and aurelio on the left and degan and arbeloa/finnan on the right.

come on amigo he was bought as an attacking player, he stands or falls on his offensive play.

1/ He's never lead the line. Either Crouch or Torres have.
2/ Stop being so silly about playing 14 defenders. Rafa has given him a specific role and that role is different than he has played before. That role makes it difficult to get into the box.

Are you denying that?

[rage]

1/ He's never lead the line. Either Crouch or Torres have.
2/ Stop being so silly about playing 14 defenders. Rafa has given him a specific role and that role is different than he has played before. That role makes it difficult to get into the box.

Are you denying that?

never led the line? off the top of my head champions league final spring to mind. unless u agree with me that he isn't capable of leading the line even when he's tried

of course he's going to find it difficult to get into the box in his new role - he found it difficult in the role he'd been bought for!