lets be honest..chelsea are streets ahead of us

[Roboklopp]

Yep, Barcelona, Manchester United and AC Milan would love what we have done these past 4 years - hang on...

Only AC & us have reached the final twice in that period, so you can scratch Scum & BArca from that list.

[dww]

Yep, Barcelona, Manchester United and AC Milan would love what we have done these past 4 years - hang on...

So what you are saying is that at worst we are the 4th best team in Europe in recent years? Hardly a damning indictment is it?

For example the lovely flowing football of Arsenal has resulted in what domestic or European wins during Rafa's tenure?

[Rashid]

And AC Milan are an attractive passing team are they?

I don't agree with your description of defensive pragmatism of our play but it is quite similar to the football Chelsea played under Mourinho and they didn't do too bad in the league did they.

Yes AC Milan are a passing team and you would know this if you knew Italian football, they are known for being "different to other Italian teams" and just because they are good in defence it doesn't make them defensive. Just look at how they passed Man United to death 1 year ago.

Chelsea under Mouringo played disgusting football but won on the back of the sheer quality of the players - we can't do that - we have to be more creative than that.

[Rashid]

So what you are saying is that at worst we are the 4th best team in Europe in recent years? Hardly a damning indictment is it?

For example the lovely flowing football of Arsenal has resulted in what domestic or European wins during Rafa's tenure?

Arsenal are bad comparison given their net spend of these past 4 years is probably in PROFIT. They are the new Ajax and they did get to a final 3 years ago. We aren't bad in Europe, we are excellent but in knockout tournaments we are good as we are hard to beat and we have had Garcia, Gerrard and Torres who are match winners.

I am talking more about the league where conistent quality week in week out is required and you can't always rely on electric Anfield nights and backs against the wall perfomances as a one off.

[BFG]

Yes AC Milan are a passing team and you would know this if you knew Italian football, they are known for being "different to other Italian teams" and just because they are good in defence it doesn't make them defensive. Just look at how they passed Man United to death 1 year ago.

Chelsea under Mouringo played disgusting football but won on the back of the sheer quality of the players - we can't do that - we have to be more creative than that.

AC Milan may pass the ball but they are hardly an attractive team. They pass sideways and backwards to upset the oppositions shape and get 10 men behind the ball as much as possible and hit teams on the counter. They are actually quite similar to us in the way they play and you'd know this if you knew Italian football.

[Rashid]

AC Milan may pass the ball but they are hardly an attractive team. They pass sideways and backwards to upset the oppositions shape and get 10 men behind the ball as much as possible and hit teams on the counter. They are actually quite similar to us in the way they play and you'd know this if you knew Italian football.

Nothing like us, we don't have midfield runners like a Kaka, we have Gerrard but he plays up front, we certainly don't have attacking fullbacks like they have employed over the past few years either.

[BFG]

Nothing like us, we don't have midfield runners like a Kaka, we have Gerrard but he plays up front, we certainly don't have attacking fullbacks like they have employed over the past few years either.

They play Kaka off a lone frontman like we do with Gerrard and play two midfield anchor men so they are very much like us.

We don't have their attacking fullbacks I agree and that was probably where we were weakest last season but I think Rafa has attempted to sort that out with Degen and Dossena this summer.

[paulc]

Arsenal are bad comparison given their net spend of these past 4 years is probably in PROFIT. They are the new Ajax and they did get to a final 3 years ago. We aren't bad in Europe, we are excellent but in knockout tournaments we are good as we are hard to beat and we have had Garcia, Gerrard and Torres who are match winners.

I am talking more about the league where conistent quality week in week out is required and you can't always rely on electric Anfield nights and backs against the wall perfomances as a one off.

Rashid

You are more concerned with profit than results

[Rix007]

In Rashid's defense, he is right...We need to play more attractive football and win handsomely....Teams around Europe need to fear us but currently they don't...Rafa has to stop being so defensively minded and really unleash this team...Remember the Arsenal CL game, this team has in them to play any team off the park but sadly we do not employ that attacking part that much

[Reece]

Teams around Europe need to fear us but currently they don't.

I bet they bloody do fear playing us in the CL.

[Rix007]

I bet they bloody do fear playing us in the CL.

At home they certainly do...But not away...Remember Valencia at Anfield couple seasons ago..We need to get to that level in the PL and CL...

[Reece]

At home they certainly do...But not away...Remember Valencia at Anfield couple seasons ago..We need to get to that level in the PL and CL...

Valencia at Anfield who were managed by Rafa at the time, whilst we were managed by Houllier you mean?

And we did alright against Barca, Juve, Inter away in the CL.

But I would agree to an extent that a lot of teams don't fear us in the Premiership.

[Elvoz]

I bet they bloody do fear playing us in the CL.

of that there is no argument

[Exiled_red]

We won't win the league until Rafa has us playing quality football and not the defensive pragmatism he currently employs. We must be the worst passing side of all top teams in Europe.

In Rashid's defense, he is right...We need to play more attractive football and win handsomely....Teams around Europe need to fear us but currently they don't...Rafa has to stop being so defensively minded and really unleash this team...Remember the Arsenal CL game, this team has in them to play any team off the park but sadly we do not employ that attacking part that much

If we won the league playing this dull football would you be happy?

Also, I don't think many teams fancy meeting us in Europe

[rage]

no one's questioning europe. but does anyone think we could have destroyed 'arry's team the way chelsea did in their first league game with a new manager that had never managed in the premiership....etc etc.

we would have set up to counter what they had to offer, not go about and say '**** you i'll let you worry about what i've got' the way chelsea did. it'll be interesting to see what sort of manager this man makes, if its anything like his attitude he'll be all guns blazing annihilation.