Boro (h) Post match thread

[JohnDoe]

That's a really good post mate, well done for that and I enjoyed reading that.

Rafa has been here 4 years and in that time he has bought about 8 players for the wide positions and none have been good enough. The reason why so many fans tout Gerrard for the right or behind Torres is because Rafa has simply failed to find a player to play those positions. That is down to the manager and nobody else, it isn't even lack of funds as he has spent near on £40m looking for players for the wide areas - currently occupied by a £10m failed striker and another £11m youngster who looks totally disjointed out there and doesn't like playing wide.

The thing that you're ignoring, is that he never had the amount of money that you mention at any given time which would have allowed him to sign a wide man of Torres' quality. When given the money, he has delivered.

He's always had to settle for 2nd options and alternatives. If you add up the numbers from the last 4 summers, you may get an impressive figure of money spent in the wide areas, but it's not an impressive figure if you look at every summer as a single scenario.

It's also funny how Gareth Barry has now become our Diego Maradona (at Napoli) all he needs to do is sign and the full backs become Carlos and Cafu and the our play becomes attacking and more expansive - grow up, and wake lads, please for ****s sake. This is Gareth Barry, had one decent season in midfield and is a failed wide player and left back....

Gareth Barry would allow us to shape our central midfield differently, which in turn can compliment our attacking force (Kuyt/Keane/Babel/Benayoun) much better than Alonso at the moment.

I invite you to read this and you'll see that our views of football are not that different.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=53613

The bottom line for me isn't any of the signings or anything to do with this season but over the course of the 4 years Rafa has neglected expansive football and technical excellence in favour of regimented football designed to suffocate the opposition and wear them down and in turn allowing us to attack when they are weak. Nobody can deny that, Rafa even admits it.

I don't think Rafa had any other choice with the squad he has inherited and the money available to him. You can't play like Brazil if you don't have the quality of Brazil, but little by little, he has significantly improved us during the last 4 summers and our football has improved as well. I don't think I need to tell you who was our previous manager and what was his philosophy of football.

We won't challenge for the league until the team plays better quality football simple as that. Individual brilliance and only get you so far...

I agree, but one player's individual brilliance won Man United the title last season. It's not black and white.

[Rashid]

JohnDoe - again I really enjoyed reading that but let me ask you this... if you look at the successful wide players at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Arsenal over the past few years...

Robben, J. Cole, Ronaldo, Nasri, Pires, Hleb, etc..

How many of them cost "Torres money"? They were all costing less than or about the same as Babel cost us of Kuyt cost us. I disagree that you have to spend £20m to buy a decent winger, you don't as that list proved. You just have to have an eye for good attacking players and IMO Rafa doesn't or his scouts don't.

[Scratch]

JohnDoe - again I really enjoyed reading that but let me ask you this... if you look at the successful wide players at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Arsenal over the past few years...

Robben, J. Cole, Ronaldo, Nasri, Pires, Hleb, etc..

How many of them cost "Torres money"? They were all costing less than or about the same as Babel cost us of Kuyt cost us. I disagree that you have to spend £20m to buy a decent winger, you don't as that list proved. You just have to have an eye for good attacking players and IMO Rafa doesn't or his scouts don't.

Babel money or Kuyt money...that's what, £12 million...how many of them cost that or more?? Torres money is £20 million, and we aren't going to spend that on a wide midfield player (wingers are a dead artform, live with it) but we will spend £12mil on a wide midfielder...Downing/Riera/Etc...pertty much the same money United spent on Ronaldo, Arse spent on Nasri, Chelsea on Robben and Cole...Pires was bought back when the market was nowhere near as inflated as it is now...infact, in todays money, £20mil will buy you Ronaldo's right leg, so it's pointless putting him in that bracket. And Hleb? What happened to him again?

[red g]

JohnDoe - again I really enjoyed reading that but let me ask you this... if you look at the successful wide players at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Arsenal over the past few years...

etc..

How many of them cost "Torres money"? They were all costing less than or about the same as Babel cost us of Kuyt cost us. I disagree that you have to spend £20m to buy a decent winger, you don't as that list proved. You just have to have an eye for good attacking players and IMO Rafa doesn't or his scouts don't.

Robben - Injury Prone ,
J. Cole - Great player
Ronaldo - Sack PArry we tried
Nasri - been here all of 2 games
Pires - Class
Hleb- took him a season to get going, give babel the same chance

so in 4 years there has been 3 succesful Wide players only Pires and Ronaldo have been regulars and would hardly call cole/Hleb wingers anyway.

[JohnDoe]

JohnDoe - again I really enjoyed reading that but let me ask you this... if you look at the successful wide players at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Arsenal over the past few years...

Robben, J. Cole, Ronaldo, Nasri, Pires, Hleb, etc..

How many of them cost "Torres money"? They were all costing less than or about the same as Babel cost us of Kuyt cost us. I disagree that you have to spend £20m to buy a decent winger, you don't as that list proved. You just have to have an eye for good attacking players and IMO Rafa doesn't or his scouts don't.

You're giving me some very bad examples. An 18-year old kid who cost £12m, another youngster who's played two games for Arsenal before being branded a "success", and some players signed before Rafa was even our manager, in a completely different transfer climate. Oh and Hleb who took about 18 months to settle, something you're not going to give Babel?

[Mike]

To be honest, i'd rather be as unexciting as Chelsea were under Jose and win the league, if it's all the same to you?

My point exactly.

[fred_plasticine]

The bottom line for me isn't any of the signings or anything to do with this season but over the course of the 4 years Rafa has neglected expansive football and technical excellence in favour of regimented football designed to suffocate the opposition and wear them down and in turn allowing us to attack when they are weak. Nobody can deny that, Rafa even admits it.

We won't challenge for the league until the team plays better quality football simple as that. Individual brilliance and only get you so far...

that rafa's game plan alright.
combine our overall team performance in 2006 with some possible matchwinners like torres, keane and babel and you've got a title winning team. pretty it might not be but effective and solid nontheless.
chelsea played some pretty dire stuff under jose, stopped the opposition from playing and nicked a goal each time. that was enough for them to win the league like that wasn't it?

[Rashid]

that rafa's game plan alright.
combine our overall team performance in 2006 with some possible matchwinners like torres, keane and babel and you've got a title winning team. pretty it might not be but effective and solid nontheless.
chelsea played some pretty dire stuff under jose, stopped the opposition from playing and nicked a goal each time. that was enough for them to win the league like that wasn't it?

I don't want us to be like Chelsea but then that's me.

[Elvoz]

I don't want us to be like Chelsea but then that's me.

rashid do you go the game mate ?

[Elvoz]

rashid do you go the game mate ?

i ask because you are always having a go and ffs dont ever snap up any lower cent tickets pal

it does me head in people like you moaning about everything - i bet if we were 3 up you would say the ball is too bouncy or such like


no offence

[BFG]

Quoting yourself = epic fail.

Why would anyone in their right mind give a **** if we scraped through every game 1-0 if we won the league, especially given the fact we haven't won it for nearly two decades?

[Mike]

A win is a win.

[Rashid]

rashid do you go the game mate ?

Yes, when I can. If it counts. I have been to two this season, why does that matter?

[Scratch]

I don't want us to be like Chelsea but then that's me.

Well, considering they've one 2 PL trophies in the past 5 years, i'd like to be just a little bit like them at the moment, rather than having to live on past glories. But then, that's just me.

[MrMichael]

We'd all like to see more exciting, flowing football, I think that's a given, but I do think that's understandably secondary to most people when compared to simply getting results.

Imo we have stronger group of players at Anfield than I can remember in many years, including some world class talents in Reina, Mascher, Torres, Gerrard, some approaching that level; Keane, Agger & Skrtel, Carra, or with the potential to reach that level; Babel, Lucas. We flagrantly have some issues in wide positions, but with there are very few clubs without limitless resources who can say they don't have weaknesses. I really don't think we're far off being a genuinely good side which could be capable of playing both attractive and winning football, but as long as we're not quite there I'd rather we were winning first and being attractive later, rather than the other way round.