Rafa Discussion Thread

[bobbyfallon]

How about the fact that we have never challenged for the league under Rafa?

yes rashid this is a fact

but what most people are argueing about is the fact that rafa had started so far behind and in general improved our league points total whilst not competing for the top players consistantly in the transfer market. he has often had to go for 2nd even 3rd choice signings, too many times to mention here

those pro rafa, i am one but am also, but not blinkered enough to see that he does not make mistakes - we all do. he however the boss and gets my support.

he has got us closer you have to agree. it may take a few more years but in my opinion he is only a few players away now

[blacky]

I have outlined the Net Spend figures many times. Look for it under search.

Its time people looked at the facts. He has spent **** loads, been here 4 years and the team can't string 4 passes together.

Despite their "****ness" Rafa has won more with the players Houllier had than with the ones he has spent £200m on.

We are a charitable bunch. No other big club would accept this type of football, this much money spent and nothing to show for it in 2 years.

You can't argue with facts.

Rash in your usual condescending way you are TWISTING the facts to suit your argument. Do you think if you keep repeating yourself eventually we will all believe you. Why don't you try "Jedi Mind Tricks"? You have not once given a balanced argument looking at the BIGGER PICTURE. No wonder the majority on here take what you say with a pich of salt.

[rage]

Should put all you RCDNR posters in a room so as you can "get to know each other better"

should send the rest of you off to watch a conference game or two then when you come back you'll be better able to relate to the football we've been playing.

[Scratch]

Sorry, it was from YNWA, and i have shamelessly stolen it...

This was the 34 man squad when Rafa took over at Liverpool FC

Keepers
Dudek
Kirkland
Luzi
Harrison

Defenders
Finnan
Carragher
Hyypia
Riise
Henchoz
Otsemobor
Whitbread
Traore
Vignal
Babbel
Warnock

Midfielders
Cheyrou
Diao
Biscan
Gerrard
Hamman
Kewell
Murphy
Le Tallec
Diarra
Partridge
Potter
Smicer
Welsh

Strikers
Baros
Diouf
Mellor
Owen
Pongolle
Cisse

In his 4 seasons so far, his approx net spend has been as follows (source LFChistory.net):

2004/05 - £16mill (if we had decided to keep Owen and lost him on a bosman next season then the budget would be reduced to £8mill, and we would have had an unhappy player on our hands)
2005/06 – £13mill
2006/07 - £14mill
2007/08 - £38mill
2008/09 - £18mill

So far, his total net spend since taking over is approx £99mill on transfer fees, and his current 34 man squad looks like this (3 original players from first season, the est brought in by Rafa):

Keepers
Reina
Cavalieri
Itandje
Martin

Defenders
Carragher
Hyypia
Degen
Arbeloa
Dossena
Aurelio
Insua
Darby
Skrtel
Agger
Hobbs

Midfielders
Gerrard
Mascherano
Alonso
Lucas
Pennant
Riera
Benayoun
Plessis
El Zhar
Spearing
Leto

Strikers
Torres
Keane
Babel
Kuyt
Ngog
Nemeth
Voronin
Pacheco

I have outlined the Net Spend figures many times. Look for it under search.

Its time people looked at the facts. He has spent **** loads, been here 4 years and the team can't string 4 passes together.

Despite their "****ness" Rafa has won more with the players Houllier had than with the ones he has spent £200m on.

We are a charitable bunch. No other big club would accept this type of football, this much money spent and nothing to show for it in 2 years.

You can't argue with facts.

And i put it before you again...this is what Rafa has had to do to transform the squad, and his NET spend season by season...

[Skillz]

I have outlined the Net Spend figures many times. Look for it under search.

Its time people looked at the facts. He has spent **** loads, been here 4 years and the team can't string 4 passes together.

Despite their "****ness" Rafa has won more with the players Houllier had than with the ones he has spent £200m on.

We are a charitable bunch. No other big club would accept this type of football, this much money spent and nothing to show for it in 2 years.

You can't argue with facts.

Yes but some of us understand how ****e the squad was when he started compared to Uniteds. We also understand that many of these ****e players had long contracts on big wages who we couldn't give away. Like it or not this restricts our ability to buy top quality players on top wages. That's a very big reason why Rafa has bought so many squad fillers for nothing or very little.

Lastly, As i have said before, Rafa is making a profit on players he has sold that he also bought. That is a big ****ing step up from where we were.

[donpisci]

Yes but Scratch, you can't argue with facts can you!

[Scratch]

Yes but Scratch, you can't argue with facts can you!

Rash can, but i'm waiting to see. After all, maybe the bloke i nicked it from is way off base, and Rash will enlighten us. Or maybe Rash got his info wrong based on internet rumour and supposition. Or possibly he's made it up cos it fits his bill. But i'm sure he'll get back to me...

Still, from the 34 man squad he inherited, 3 remain...so in four years he's had to try and rebuild...some players succeed, some fail...but that's still 31 signings he's had to make, on a limited budget, in which he has often had to sell in order to buy...and that is a FACT.

[Skillz]

Rash can, but i'm waiting to see. After all, maybe the bloke i nicked it from is way off base, and Rash will enlighten us. Or maybe Rash got his info wrong based on internet rumour and supposition. Or possibly he's made it up cos it fits his bill. But i'm sure he'll get back to me...

Still, from the 34 man squad he inherited, 3 remain...so in four years he's had to try and rebuild...some players succeed, some fail...but that's still 31 signings he's had to make, on a limited budget, in which he has often had to sell in order to buy...and that is a FACT.

Damn straight.

Rafa is doing an outstanding job IMO. He makes mistakes and is not perfect, but we are progressing, albeit slowly, against tough opposition.

Anyway Rash should be along with the stats and figures soon

[barnes10]

it ALL boils down to us prioritising the CL. That is a club strategic decision for 3 reasons.

1. Money - we need it. Rafa's Net spend corresponds to what he earns here
2. Profile - to market the club and attrract top players
3. 1st 11 - we have the team to win any match but don't have the squad to win the title. the CL suits us

so the one time in rafa's tenure that rashid is pointing to when we were close to man u in the league was 05-06. Where we finished with 82 and them with 83.

So what happened that year? Well we were knocked out of the CL in Feb so had our second priority to go for which was the prem (won the FA too if you all remember). So we went on a cracking finish to that season and scored our highest ever points total. Utd finished 8 points off the title that year. only 3 better than our gap to it this season. Both before and since then we have been to at least the 2ng leg of the semi finals which, as you know, is in early may. The CL (and therefore the preparations to keep the first team fit and firing for it) occupies our whole season.

This tells us two things:

1 Rafa can get us to perform well in the premiership if thats his focus. Even accounting for his relatively poor squad. LFC with Rafa punches above its weight.
2. Man U have kicked on since then having added the likes of:
Michael Carrick (Tottenham - 14mill rising to 18.6), Tomasz Kuzcsak( West Brom ?), Carlos Tevez (unattached, 32 mill -), Anderson (FC Porto, £8m rising to £20.4m), O Hargreaves (Bayern Munich, £16.8m rising to £20.2m), Nani (Sporting Lisbon, £8m rising to £17.3m), Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham, 30.75m)

Man U total spend: 139mill in 2 years. I don't know who they've sold but if rafa's net is 99mill over 5 years, i'd question who's spent most net rash.

Aslo interesting to note is that Arsenal, when they got to the CL final, finished with a whopping 67 points - 15 BEHIND Rafa's Liverpool. So it seems the same phenomenon affects them when it comes to involvement in the CL. They can't fight on both fronts either.

Rafa's the man

[barnes10]

Rash can, but i'm waiting to see. After all, maybe the bloke i nicked it from is way off base, and Rash will enlighten us. Or maybe Rash got his info wrong based on internet rumour and supposition. Or possibly he's made it up cos it fits his bill. But i'm sure he'll get back to me...

Still, from the 34 man squad he inherited, 3 remain...so in four years he's had to try and rebuild...some players succeed, some fail...but that's still 31 signings he's had to make, on a limited budget, in which he has often had to sell in order to buy...and that is a FACT.

and brought in some of the worlds top youth players which arent free.

[Rashid]

Yes but some of us understand how ****e the squad was when he started compared to Uniteds. We also understand that many of these ****e players had long contracts on big wages who we couldn't give away. Like it or not this restricts our ability to buy top quality players on top wages. That's a very big reason why Rafa has bought so many squad fillers for nothing or very little.

Lastly, As i have said before, Rafa is making a profit on players he has sold that he also bought. That is a big ****ing step up from where we were.

He sells on so many players because they weren't good enough to begin with, we are not Ajax, we aren't in it for profit - we are in it to win it.

[Rashid]

and brought in some of the worlds top youth players which arent free.

World's top youth players? Why aren't they in the team? Some of them are 19/20... the TOP ones are usually in the team if they are TOP.

[Pacman]

I wouldn't even bother humouring Rashid boys.

Nothing against him personally but his mind is made up there is no point in going round in circles.

He doesn't rate Rafa - We rate Rafa.

End of story, bring on the Mancs.

[Manofthebog]

How about this...

Benayoun £5m
Babel £11.5m
Torres £20m
Mascherano £17m
Leto £1.8m
Insua £1.3m
Itandje £2m
Skrtel £6m

All in the same year?

How many times does it have to be explained to people?

Was that all in the same transfer window, amigo.

Remind me.

[Manofthebog]

Leave it mate.

It's not worth it.