Rafa Discussion Thread

[El Jefecito]

This place is turning into a ****ing joke.

I thought Rafa's formation and line up against Villa was ****, I really did and said so at the start of the match thread. Against Manu yesterday I was supporting him to the hilt, for me, again said at the start of the match thread, I thought he'd got his tactics spot on and Fergie had fecked up. I'll try and do it before the game so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong for all to see. And before anyoen says, no, I don't think I know more than Rafa, I haven't got an FA coaching badge, and Rafa's forgotten more about football than I've ever known, thats not the point.

If I disagree with Rafa's formation, I'll bloody well say so, if I agree with it, I'll bloody well say so too, it doesn't make me any less of a fan to have my own ****ing mind.

Its one personal attack on Rashid, Sarb and now Craig after another these days, its getting ****ing daft. I can't move on these forums for the abuse these 3 are getting.

A right load of piss it is.

Wish I'd kept my account open now for st, this place has gone to the dogs.

You're not stupid, you understand that the reason that that crew (the Maxipad Mafia) get the reaction they do is because in a lot of cases they deliberately misinterpret / misrepresent / selectively ignore things in order to make a case to beat up Rafa and then they hijack every thread with the same BS. The subsequent arrogant dismissal of or ignoring of counterpoints

That polarizes people and once people are that polarized and emotionally invested in the situation a) it's difficult to forget the 1000 posts slagging vs. the 1 praising and b) the subsequent disingenuous claim to rationality ( i.e. from Craig_H) just don't pass muster.

As you sow, so shall ye reap.

[Assassin]

This place is turning into a ****ing joke.

I thought Rafa's formation and line up against Villa was ****, I really did and said so at the start of the match thread. Against Manu yesterday I was supporting him to the hilt, for me, again said at the start of the match thread, I thought he'd got his tactics spot on and Fergie had fecked up. I'll try and do it before the game so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong for all to see. And before anyoen says, no, I don't think I know more than Rafa, I haven't got an FA coaching badge, and Rafa's forgotten more about football than I've ever known, thats not the point.

If I disagree with Rafa's formation, I'll bloody well say so, if I agree with it, I'll bloody well say so too, it doesn't make me any less of a fan to have my own ****ing mind.

Its one personal attack on Rashid, Sarb and now Craig after another these days, its getting ****ing daft. I can't move on these forums for the abuse these 3 are getting.

A right load of piss it is.

Wish I'd kept my account open now for st, this place has gone to the dogs.

FT
My post wasnt aimed at you. As far as I am concerned you are upfront, especially with you thoughts before the game on the team and line up.

What I dislike are the posters who openly attack Rafa at every available opportunity and want him out of Liverpool as in their opinion he is useless. Then after this victory they start bigging him up and expect us to forget all the constant ****e they have posted about Rafa

As I said earlier you are decent poster

[El Jefecito]

Do you post anything besides insults on fellow posters?

Like I said before and I'll say again, for you especially, our main problem with Rafa was defensive tactics and players in wrong positions. When he corrected this yesterday we beat the champions.

Don't know why you just have to go round insulting people you don't agree with. Personally I just don't get you

How were Rafa's tactics any less defensive than before?

We still had two sitting midfielders.
We still had a Striker dropping into the midfield to help out.
Our strikers still pressed.

So what exactly did we do that was less defensive?

Interesting tactical insight anticipated eagerly

[Sarb]

FT
My post wasnt aimed at you. As far as I am concerned you are upfront, especially with you thoughts before the game on the team and line up.

What I dislike are the posters who openly attack Rafa at every available opportunity and want him out of Liverpool as in their opinion he is useless. Then after this victory they start bigging him up and expect us to forget all the constant ****e they have posted about Rafa

As I said earlier you are decent poster

I don't remember bigging him up? I said he got it right but lets see what happens in the next game. I don't think Rage or Rashid have been bigging him up either with a view to forgetting what has been said previously

Personally like I said if we play as we did yesterday with team selections and tactics we'll go close. If not then we won't.

Maybe you need to read the posts before posting your stupid replies. It might help

[Sarb]

How were Rafa's tactics any less defensive than before?

We still had two sitting midfielders.
We still had a Striker dropping into the midfield to help out.
Our strikers still pressed.

So what exactly did we do that was less defensive?

Interesting tactical insight anticipated eagerly

Well, we had a proper left winger playing on the left. It helps from an attacking view point because this time we didn't have a right footer constantly cutting in from the left. We had Reiera beating his man, sometimes on the outside, sometimes in the inside. Less momentum was lost in the attacks from the left hand side.

Yossi was playing on the right, not a right winger but probably a bit better suited in that position.

We didn't have Keane playing on the left wing. The team was pressing all over the place and we were moving the ball forward a lot more quickly. When you have players playing in their natural position I think you're a lot more better attacking and defensively

Midfield against Villa: Kuyt, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun

Midfield against Scum: Yossi, Alonso, Mascherano, Reira

Much more balanced hence different tactics. The substitutions were also a lot better, more intention to win the game and a lot more positive.

[FatTony]

FT
My post wasnt aimed at you. As far as I am concerned you are upfront, especially with you thoughts before the game on the team and line up.

What I dislike are the posters who openly attack Rafa at every available opportunity and want him out of Liverpool as in their opinion he is useless. Then after this victory they start bigging him up and expect us to forget all the constant ****e they have posted about Rafa

As I said earlier you are decent poster

I wasn't sure if it was or wasn't but I've unfairly picked your post as its the last one (of what seem to be 100's of posts throwing abuse at those 3 posters). I should've just replied to the thread really, I don't want to highlight an individual

The thing is, I don't want people to stop posting what they believe in, whether it be wrong or right in our opinions. I'd rather have a forum with different ideas and footballing philosophies than one where everyones patting each other on the back.

I understand that if you're going to criticise the manager constanly, there will be a reaction, but sometimes I think these posters are saying the same things because other posters keep asking the same questions. They make a post, 3 or 4 people have a pop, they then reply with why they feel that way, more people have a pop and then it goes it full circle.

Anyway, its all good, its the first time in many years that I can walk into work and actually collect from the Mancs in my office tomorrow.

[Shaggy]

'Craig'

[El Jefecito]

Well, we had a proper left winger playing on the left. It helps from an attacking view point because this time we didn't have a right footer constantly cutting in from the left. We had Reiera beating his man, sometimes on the outside, sometimes in the inside. Less momentum was lost in the attacks from the left hand side.

Yossi was playing on the right, not a right winger but probably a bit better suited in that position.

We didn't have Keane playing on the left wing. The team was pressing all over the place and we were moving the ball forward a lot more quickly. When you have players playing in their natural position I think you're a lot more better attacking and defensively

Midfield against Villa: Kuyt, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun

Midfield against Scum: Yossi, Alonso, Mascherano, Reira

Much more balanced hence different tactics. The substitutions were also a lot better, more intention to win the game and a lot more positive.

I agree with all of that

I don't think though that Rafa sent them out to be anymore attacking or defensive than he usually does. Like you say we were just more balanced a) with Riera and b) IMO because the 2 CMs played for the team, to maintain the shape, and bring others into the play.

BTW IMO the Villa game was an anomaly, we tried to play 433 and it didn't come off. I wouldn't read anything long-term into it.

[Assassin]

I wasn't sure if it was or wasn't but I've unfairly picked your post as its the last one (of what seem to be 100's of posts throwing abuse at those 3 posters). I should've just replied to the thread really, I don't want to highlight an individual

The thing is, I don't want people to stop posting what they believe in, whether it be wrong or right in our opinions. I'd rather have a forum with different ideas and footballing philosophies than one where everyones patting each other on the back.

I understand that if you're going to criticise the manager constanly, there will be a reaction, but sometimes I think these posters are saying the same things because other posters keep asking the same questions. They make a post, 3 or 4 people have a pop, they then reply with why they feel that way, more people have a pop and then it goes it full circle.

Anyway, its all good, its the first time in many years that I can walk into work and actually collect from the Mancs in my office tomorrow.

The biggest issue I have with the people who keep having a pop, is the fact it is relentless and they even do it threads that are not about Rafa.

I dont think it is fair, so I respond. They dont like being "challenged" on their agenda, to the point where one of them suggested I should leave this site and post elsewhere.

Anyways like you said it will be a great day in work tomorrow

[FatTony]

I agree with all of that

I don't think though that Rafa sent them out to be anymore attacking or defensive than he usually does. Like you say we were just more balanced a) with Riera and b) IMO because the 2 CMs played for the team, to maintain the shape, and bring others into the play.

BTW IMO the Villa game was an anomaly, we tried to play 433 and it didn't come off. I wouldn't read anything long-term into it.

That was one of the most crucial factors yesterday, the balance, and the purchase of Riera has given us that. Looks to be an inspired signing.

[ronniedrew]

The biggest issue I have with the people who keep having a pop, is the fact it is relentless and they even do it threads that are not about Rafa.

I dont think it is fair, so I respond. They dont like being "challenged" on their agenda, to the point where one of them suggested I should leave this site and post elsewhere.

Anyways like you said it will be a great day in work tomorrow

im with you on this, a lot of threads in here are getting hyjacked by people who will never be pleased with what they have got.

the grass is not always greener on the other side

[dww]

I agree with all of that

I don't think though that Rafa sent them out to be anymore attacking or defensive than he usually does. Like you say we were just more balanced a) with Riera and b) IMO because the 2 CMs played for the team, to maintain the shape, and bring others into the play.

BTW IMO the Villa game was an anomaly, we tried to play 433 and it didn't come off. I wouldn't read anything long-term into it.

For some reason the 4-3-3 which switches to a 4-4-2 verging on a 4-5-1 in defense with slightly unsuitable wide attack players seems popular with top managers this season. Us against Villa and something not far off it from United yesterday.

To my mind it shows the loss of Quieroz has had an effect on United tactically who have previously not made those mistakes very often in the league. For us it showed (to me at least) that we needed a left footer/sided player and this was made worse by the fact we were settling in new players like Keane.

Like you I hope that it was an aberration rather than something we will pursue, certainly now we have Reira and Babel to play on the left.

[dww]

im with you on this, a lot of threads in here are getting hyjacked by people who will never be pleased with what they have got.

the grass is not always greener on the other side

People have been asked to keep the Rafa stuff to themed threads (and the match threads). If you or any one feels that people step outside that then please report the posts.

I would say that the same goes for people going 'will xxxxx be posting anything now' sort of posts from the more positive/pro-Rafa posters.

[Assassin]

To my mind it shows the loss of Quieroz has had an effect on United tactically who have previously not made those mistakes very often in the league.

This is a good point, plus they do not have the show pony to give the ball too, tactically they seem a little lost without him

[El Jefecito]

For some reason the 4-3-3 which switches to a 4-4-2 verging on a 4-5-1 in defense with slightly unsuitable wide attack players seems popular with top managers this season. Us against Villa and something not far off it from United yesterday.

To my mind it shows the loss of Quieroz has had an effect on United tactically who have previously not made those mistakes very often in the league. For us it showed (to me at least) that we needed a left footer/sided player and this was made worse by the fact we were settling in new players like Keane.

Like you I hope that it was an aberration rather than something we will pursue, certainly now we have Reira and Babel to play on the left.

I don't think we will see it much more and for the reason that Rafa switched to 4231 in the 2nd half. The whole point of the 433 was to make Xabi the free man and have him playmake/be the focal point a) he didn't play it well enough and b) Villa sussed this and took Xabi out of the game and hence we were toothless until (and TBF not much better) we went to 4231.

If Xabi can't play that role then I don't think anyone else in the team can. Anyways, I much prefer pragmatic formations, when we are setup to probe all aspects of the oppositions setup and capitalize when we find the weaknesses. As soon as you become as one dimensional as we were in the 433 it becomes easy for the opposition to shut you down. And I think yesterday was an absolute masterclass in that, we negated Manure out of the game.

It was a tactical masterpiece by Rafa and the lads. All of the hallmarks of a manure performance were denied.

The penetrative passing from the back. Denied.
Width from the full backs. Denied.
Rapid counter attacks. Denied.
Patient possession in the CM. Denied.