So do you believe the official report or not?

[Vermilion]

My friend, it's just the internet. I don't doubt for a second that RedRascal and Operation are thoroughly nice fellas, and I hope they don't take me too seriously. I only had a dig back at Red for a laugh as he seemed to do the same to me to start with, so I thought he'd be up for a laugh. If not, maybe Red shouldn't be cheeky to start with!

No idiots and retards here.

Cheeky eh, i agree, but your response was not, it was insulting, and to now say you didn't mean it that way is even more insulting, i've just read my post back...i see no real insult...just questions, you then made a joke about 'say it in english' which i jokingly replied to, i believe you then racked it up with insults. imo.

That's how i saw it, if mistaken then my fault, but maybe you could work on you humorous replies a tad eh.

Anyway, enough of this malarkey, no harm done really, we're all adults...Yes!! me too. even if my posting style sometimes camouflages that fact.

[Scratch]

I agree entirely.

Rafa likes to talk about the 'facts' as he said during his outburst recently, so let's do just that.

1. Rafa has said recently that 'the club' spent money on Keane. To me that's Rafa's way of using the media, once again, to let folks know that the fact that Keane's purchase hasn't worked out is not his fault and that it was not his choice. Cos that's the way Rafa talks, the club spent the money, it's not like it came out of Rafa's pocket

2. Rafa has always given his purchases time to settle and bed in. Just think of some of the dross that has had regular starts and at least a season under Rafa. Nunez, Josemi, Dossena etc etc etc. Hell, even the one man defensive disaster zone that was Pellegrino had a fair few starts and he was shocking. Crouch and Kuyt had plenty of support and yet Keane gets 6 months? It's obvious Keane wasn't working out, so as Rafa says, sell him now for the benifit of both club and player.

3. Keane never really had a chance to settle did he? How many times was he dragged off early? Or not even started. Or after scoring a few goals, benched for the next game. Now everybody knows how strikers thrive off confidence, so it's hardly going to do him the world of good when he's dropped or pulled off early constantly. That's hardly the way to settle a new striker into the team. It's certainly not the treatment that Crouch and Kuyt have had. Rot, he started numerous games, and if he can't show what he's about in 65 minutes, then an extra 25 at the end won't ****ing help either. Crouch at least looked like a team player, and Kuyt is the teams workhorse, he's our Park Ji Sung or Darren Fletcher, and always showed 100% effort, unlike Keane

4. Babel. He's been awful this season, yet even after 18 months of support and patience, I don't see Rafa trying to push him out of the door. You answered your own question...this season...but last season he showed what he can do, and i think he'll show it again...Keane showed us what he can do...hence he got sold.



For those posters who feel that there is nothing going on behind the scenes and that it was purely a footballing decision, surely this has to go down as a massive transfer cock up by Rafa. A £20 mill transfer which did not deliver, we made a loss on, we didn't really give a chance and one that has also left us inadequately covered for the run in.Aye, a whole 3 million pound loss, and if we'd left it longer, we'd have lost even more. Good decision to sell now really, don't you think?

[dww]

I voted that I thought it was a bit of both, however I definitely think that the performances were the primary motivation.

[Baldemort]

Cheeky eh, i agree, but your response was not, it was insulting, and to now say you didn't mean it that way is even more insulting, i've just read my post back...i see no real insult...just questions, you then made a joke about 'say it in english' which i jokingly replied to, i believe you then racked it up with insults. imo.

That's how i saw it, if mistaken then my fault, but maybe you could work on you humorous replies a tad eh.

Anyway, enough of this malarkey, no harm done really, we're all adults...Yes!! me too. even if my posting style sometimes camouflages that fact.

Red, your post had a smiley of a ****** at the end of it. Maybe I misunderstood that, but I take that as being an insult. How else is that smiley meant to be taken? Maybe I misunderstand.

[Vermilion]

I voted that I thought it was a bit of both, however I definitely think that the performances were the primary motivation.

As did i, i know for a fact his performances weren't great, but what happened to giving a signing time, he's only had half a season tbf, so i cant really say hand on heart that performance was the only issue, nor though could i say he was sold only for other reasons like disruption, not settling, politics, etc.

[Baldemort]

Originally Posted by Baldemort View Post
I agree entirely.

Rafa likes to talk about the 'facts' as he said during his outburst recently, so let's do just that.

1. Rafa has said recently that 'the club' spent money on Keane. To me that's Rafa's way of using the media, once again, to let folks know that the fact that Keane's purchase hasn't worked out is not his fault and that it was not his choice. Cos that's the way Rafa talks, the club spent the money, it's not like it came out of Rafa's pocket

2. Rafa has always given his purchases time to settle and bed in. Just think of some of the dross that has had regular starts and at least a season under Rafa. Nunez, Josemi, Dossena etc etc etc. Hell, even the one man defensive disaster zone that was Pellegrino had a fair few starts and he was shocking. Crouch and Kuyt had plenty of support and yet Keane gets 6 months? It's obvious Keane wasn't working out, so as Rafa says, sell him now for the benifit of both club and player.

3. Keane never really had a chance to settle did he? How many times was he dragged off early? Or not even started. Or after scoring a few goals, benched for the next game. Now everybody knows how strikers thrive off confidence, so it's hardly going to do him the world of good when he's dropped or pulled off early constantly. That's hardly the way to settle a new striker into the team. It's certainly not the treatment that Crouch and Kuyt have had. Rot, he started numerous games, and if he can't show what he's about in 65 minutes, then an extra 25 at the end won't ****ing help either. Crouch at least looked like a team player, and Kuyt is the teams workhorse, he's our Park Ji Sung or Darren Fletcher, and always showed 100% effort, unlike Keane

4. Babel. He's been awful this season, yet even after 18 months of support and patience, I don't see Rafa trying to push him out of the door. You answered your own question...this season...but last season he showed what he can do, and i think he'll show it again...Keane showed us what he can do...hence he got sold.



For those posters who feel that there is nothing going on behind the scenes and that it was purely a footballing decision, surely this has to go down as a massive transfer cock up by Rafa. A £20 mill transfer which did not deliver, we made a loss on, we didn't really give a chance and one that has also left us inadequately covered for the run in.Aye, a whole 3 million pound loss, and if we'd left it longer, we'd have lost even more. Good decision to sell now really, don't you think?


I agree that it was best that he was sold now, but not with your other points. Let's agree to disagree, Scratch.

[Vermilion]

Red, your post had a smiley of a ****** at the end of it. Maybe I misunderstood that, but I take that as being an insult. How else is that smiley meant to be taken? Maybe I misunderstand.

Eh, i ended it with a No smilie ****** from me Baldermart. There has been a misunderstanding here i'm guessing.

[Baldemort]

Eh, i ended it with a No smilie ****** from me Baldermart.

Isn't that a smiley of a guy making a wanking gesture?

[Vermilion]

Isn't that a smiley of a guy making a wanking gesture?

I bloody hope not or i've been insulting posters all over the place, i take it to mean... said in jest, or something like. Dear god i hope i'm not wrong.

That's made my day that, i don't like falling out,(not that i'm soft.. grrr ) now i know you had a.. er...sort of reason for going off on one i feel better about it all. Funny.

[Baldemort]

I bloody hope not or i've been insulting posters all over the place, i take it to mean... said in jest, or something like. Dear god i hope i'm not wrong.

That's made my day that, i don't like falling out, now i know you had a.. er...sort of reason for going off on one i feel better about it all. Funny.

Well, it's called 'crackoff' which I assume is an abbreviation of crack one off, which I take to mean wanking or ******. I could be wrong though mate.

[Scratch]

I agree that it was best that he was sold now, but not with your other points. Let's agree to disagree, Scratch.

[Neil Young]

I voted that I thought it was a bit of both, however I definitely think that the performances were the primary motivation.

That's the limitations of quantitative research for you.

[Kenneth]

Well, it's called 'crackoff' which I assume is an abbreviation of crack one off, which I take to mean wanking or ******. I could be wrong though mate.

There used to be a :whatever: one with was the same without the smile. That used to wind people up something rotten.

is usually used in a lighthearted way, execpt by me

[Vermilion]

Well, it's called 'crackoff' which I assume is an abbreviation of crack one off, which I take to mean wanking or ******. I could be wrong though mate.

See why you misunderstood, but no it's not meant to be an insulting smilie.

Just a misunderstanding...water under the bridge.

[Neil Young]

I'm not wriggling out of anything. I've already said it was a flaw, but it's such a small one it's not going to swing the vote. Most people aren't too bothered about reading between the lines of an internet poll. Which is why nobody else has bothered picking up on it besides your good self.

It wasn't pedantry mate, if you read the thread you will see that it was a piss take in response to his initial little dig at me. If I really gave a ****e about correct grammar and language i'd be here for hours, and to be fair, i'm no expert myself.

Your point about the cash being part of Rafa's explanation doesn't make sense in this context either. Read the questions asked in the title and in the poll. The reason cash was mentioned was to explain why Keane was sold so soon after his arrival. I didn't ask that. I asked why he was being sold. Not why he was being sold so quickly. So that kind of renders your point, well, pointless.

You can read into it and be pedantic about it all you like Neil, but I very much doubt that most people are really that bothered by it and would have the intelligence to understand the meaning of the question. It's really not difficult. And it certainly does not mean that I know '****' all about the interpreting raw data etc. I'm just not anal about it when it's regarding a quick internet poll on an internet site about football. As I said, it's harldy going to dramatically swing the poll.

Having said that, I will ensure that I word things more carefully in future so as not to confuse our so easily confused site members.

Haha, sarcasm, there's never any comeback to it.

I suspected you might quibble about the timing issue and yet actually it's another reason the poll is a poor format for understanding these things in any detail whatsoever. Timing can't really be separated from the decision and neither can the amount of cash. For example, what would have happened if last week Man City had offered £400billion for Gerrard? If he'd been sold would that be because (a) due to current credit squeeze the owners need cash for loans (and because they're greedy b*st*rds) or (b) because it's too much money to turn down or (c) some other reason? Answers on a postcard...

Ultimately my point is that polls are fine for a bit of fun but they are actually more complicated than they appear to be so it helps if people are careful on the conclusions they draw.

Still, I'll try harder to retain my sense of humour in future.