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Perspective and perception. Is Rafa a victim of his own success?

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    #61
    Originally posted by saj View Post
    It doesn't matter whether you finish 1 or 4th, the champions league money is put into a pot and is equally distributed.

    The only English team I can recall not getting through the qualifying rounds of the Champions League is Everton. If you think (assuming we finish in that position) finishing second is a major achievement given the position we were in a few months ago then clearly you have no ambition for the team you support.
    It's clearly possible for any team who does not automatically qualify for the CL to fail to progress. If you aren't capable of understanding or acknowledging that finishing second is preferable to finishing below second then there's really no point in trying to discuss it with you.

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      #62
      Originally posted by saj View Post
      Why have United gone from being 8/9 points behind us, to being 2 ahead of us in the last month? And remember, there's no prizes for finishing second - regardless of whether you've improved on the previous season

      this one til your blue in the face pal - all you get is points better off blah blah - id take less points and the pl title every time

      Originally posted by Craig_H View Post
      I think he's far more suited to a cautious 'underdogs' style of football, where you keep your shape, stay compact and make it difficult for the opposition to play. His teams are always very hard to beat.

      When it comes to being the attacking aggressor and having the onus to come out and press teams back, he is out of his comfort zone and it doesnt come naturally to him.

      ive taught you well young un

      Comment

        #63
        Originally posted by elvoz View Post
        ive taught you well young un
        I think it's a simplistic analysis passing for insight but we all pays our money and takes ours choices, don't we?
        .
        Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



        May the Lord bless this post.

        Comment

          #64
          Originally posted by TheElephantMan View Post
          It's clearly possible for any team who does not automatically qualify for the CL to fail to progress. If you aren't capable of understanding or acknowledging that finishing second is preferable to finishing below second then there's really no point in trying to discuss it with you.
          Er, this may not be the major bone of contention here but I think third qualifies automatically for next year's CL, doesn't it?

          However, the fourth-placed club faces a trickier qualification tie than hitherto with, I think, a two in five (or two in seven) chance of facing the fourth-placed finisher in Spain or Italy.

          So, if I'm right about that, then you're both a bit right too. And also a bit wrong, I suppose.
          .
          Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



          May the Lord bless this post.

          Comment

            #65
            Originally posted by saj View Post
            It doesn't matter whether you finish 1 or 4th, the champions league money is put into a pot and is equally distributed.

            The only English team I can recall not getting through the qualifying rounds of the Champions League is Everton. If you think (assuming we finish in that position) finishing second is a major achievement given the position we were in a few months ago then clearly you have no ambition for the team you support.
            I think Newcastle got knocked out once as well
            It's easy to distract fat people. It's a piece of cake.

            Comment

              #66
              Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
              Er, this may not be the major bone of contention here but I think third qualifies automatically for next year's CL, doesn't it?

              However, the fourth-placed club faces a trickier qualification tie than hitherto with, I think, a two in five (or two in seven) chance of facing the fourth-placed finisher in Spain or Italy.

              So, if I'm right about that, then you're both a bit right too. And also a bit wrong, I suppose.

              Comment

                #67
                Originally posted by TheElephantMan View Post
                It's clearly possible for any team who does not automatically qualify for the CL to fail to progress. If you aren't capable of understanding or acknowledging that finishing second is preferable to finishing below second then there's really no point in trying to discuss it with you.
                The only thing I've said is that there is little difference between 2nd and 4th - but there is a massive difference between finishing 1st and 2nd/3rd etc. If you're not capable of understanding that finising 1st is better than finishing 2nd/3rd/4th then clearly you should be supporting a different team.
                My kebab comes with chilli sauce

                Comment

                  #68
                  Originally posted by saj View Post
                  It doesn't matter whether you finish 1 or 4th, the champions league money is put into a pot and is equally distributed.
                  I dont think that's true.

                  Comment

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
                    I think it's a simplistic analysis passing for insight but we all pays our money and takes ours choices, don't we?
                    Coming from you, it's priceless mate.

                    Comment

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Craig_H View Post
                      I dont think that's true.
                      Yup nearly sure myself the top team gets a higher percentage then it falls the lower down the top 4 you are.

                      Comment

                        #71
                        Originally posted by Woobus View Post
                        Yup nearly sure myself the top team gets a higher percentage then it falls the lower down the top 4 you are.
                        That was my understanding too.

                        Comment

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Woobus View Post
                          Yup nearly sure myself the top team gets a higher percentage then it falls the lower down the top 4 you are.
                          Nope, the money definately goes into a pot for each country and then is divided. You gain more money as you progress further. So if all of the English teams make it to the group stages, then they will recieve an equal amount of money from Uefa. But if certain teams progress past the group stages and other don't, then they earn more money.

                          Also, half of the money awarded by UEFA is distributed evenly amongst every team in the Champions league, the other half is distributed based on the market value of each country. Therefore, the English teams will get more than the teams from the French league, Czech league etc etc. T


                          Here's an article to clarify...

                          European victors Milan top Champions League money list
                          (Reuters)
                          Updated: 2007-07-11 13:45

                          Milan, who avenged their defeat in the 2005 final to Liverpool by beating them 2-1 in this year's final in Athens in May, collected 39.59 million euros ($54.04 million)), followed by semi-finalists Chelsea (34.66 million euros) and Liverpool (32.22 million euros).

                          The figures were issued on Tuesday, by UEFA, European soccer's governing body who run the competition.

                          Sevilla, of Spain, who won the UEFA Cup for the second successive season, picked up 6.25 million euros after beating Espanyol on penalties in the final in Glasgow. Espanyol's prize-money totalled 5.31 million euros.

                          The figures released do not include income from match-day tickets.

                          Last season was the first in a new three-year cycle for the marketing of European soccer's top club competitions.

                          The formula for dividing up the revenues from both competitions along with the financial gap between the elite Champions League and the less prestigious UEFA Cup has been a bitter bone of contention between UEFA, national associations, leagues and clubs.

                          Half of the revenues were distributed by awarding fixed sums to clubs at every stage of the competitions, while the other 50 percent was based on the market value of each national market.

                          The amounts of money handed out for reaching various stages of the competitions ranged from 2.0 million euros for every club who qualified in the Champions League up to Milan's additional earnings of 7.0 million euros for winning the final.

                          Liverpool received 4.0 million euros as Champions League runners-up.

                          In the UEFA Cup, each team received 70,000 euros by way of qualification with Sevilla receiving 2.5 million euros for winning the final and Espanyol earning 1.5 million as beaten finalists.

                          What is clear is that clubs in the Champions League make far more money in that competition even if they are far less successful than clubs in the UEFA Cup.

                          For example, UEFA's figures show that Levski Sofia of Bulgaria, who lost all their six group stage matches in the Champions League and were eliminated, still made 1.0 million euros ($1.37 million) more than Tottenham Hotspur ($5.85 million) who won their first eight successive matches in the UEFA Cup before going out at the quarter-final stage to Sevilla.
                          Last edited by saj; 12-02-09, 06:42 PM.
                          My kebab comes with chilli sauce

                          Comment

                            #73
                            Originally posted by saj View Post
                            Milan, who avenged their defeat in the 2005 final to Liverpool by beating them 2-1 in this year's final in Athens in May, collected 39.59 million euros ($54.04 million)), followed by semi-finalists Chelsea (34.66 million euros) and Liverpool (32.22 million euros).

                            [/I]
                            Something seems to be wrong with that as Liverpool received less money than Chelsea although Liverpool got to the final.

                            Comment

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Woobus View Post
                              Something seems to be wrong with that as Liverpool received less money than Chelsea although Liverpool got to the final.
                              You get more money for winning more matches. Chelsea probably had a much better record than we did...until the semi of course.
                              .
                              Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                              May the Lord bless this post.

                              Comment

                                #75
                                Nope from UEFAs site it seems to be split by how you finish in the league

                                http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=16384/newsId=77336.html


                                TV contracts
                                Each club was also entitled to a share of the market pool, allocated in proportion to the value of the TV contracts for the countries of the clubs concerned. Furthermore, the amount paid out to the associations with more than one club in the competition depended on the number of matches played in the 2002/03 Champions League, and on the clubs' finishing position in the previous season's domestic championship.

                                Market pool
                                Consequently, for the same number of Champions League matches, Juventus received more from the market pool than their conquerors in the final, Milan, because they finished the 2001/02 Italian domestic season as champions, while Milan finished fourth

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