John Barnes On Lucas & The Liverpool Squad

[BFG]

I think Craig is right in that it probably wasn't Gerrard who brought Lucas up but I do think Gerrard believes he's a decent player because he is.

[Reece]

Possibly. But the point is, if he doesnt rate him (which is more likely, IMO), he cant come out and say it.

Yes but why bother arguing that point at all really? It seems that because what Gerrard has said doesn't agree with your opinion on the player, then you have to find a reason why that may be, and you come to the conclusion that it is because Gerrard can't say otherwise, rather than believe he may have actually been being sincere.

[Craig_H]

Yes but why bother arguing that point at all really? It seems that because what Gerrard has said doesn't agree with your opinion on the player, then you have to find a reason why that may be, and you come to the conclusion that it is because Gerrard can't say otherwise, rather than believe he may have actually been being sincere.

Erm...how about ****ing no?

People were posting that Barnes and Gerrard 'rated' Lucas and gave the articles as 'evidence of this'. I was merely pointing out that if asked about Lucas publicly, they ARE going to be complimentary - they're not likely to slate him or refuse to answer the question.

THAT is the point i'm debating, it has nothing to do with who agrees or disagrees with my opinion. How about reading the thread and/or just basing your conclusion on the actual posts?

[Vermilion]

Yes but why bother arguing that point at all really? It seems that because what Gerrard has said doesn't agree with your opinion on the player, then you have to find a reason why that may be, and you come to the conclusion that it is because Gerrard can't say otherwise, rather than believe he may have actually been being sincere.

I think Craig is just saying this because he must, what else could he say, he's been knocking certain players for ages.

I actually think Craig now rates Lucas, but he's not going to admit it is he.

[Craig_H]

I think Craig is just saying this because he must, what else could he say, he's been knocking certain players for ages.

I actually think Craig now rates Lucas, but he's not going to admit it is he.

It's precisely the point though, i'm not even bothered to debate about whether Lucas is any good, each to their own.

But the fact that Barnes and Gerrard have been complimentary about him to a journalist, for an article, doesnt remotely prove that they rate him. Whether they do or not is another story, but a media article doesnt really count as reliable evidence, to me.

[Craig_H]

And for the record, i will happily change my mind if the performances are good enough - i never used to rate Kuyt before, but he's got better and now i almost rate him a tiny bit

[Reece]

Erm...how about ****ing no?

People were posting that Barnes and Gerrard 'rated' Lucas and gave the articles as 'evidence of this'. I was merely pointing out that if asked about Lucas publicly, they ARE going to be complimentary - they're not likely to slate him or refuse to answer the question.

THAT is the point i'm debating, it has nothing to do with who agrees or disagrees with my opinion. How about reading the thread and/or just basing your conclusion on the actual posts?

Calm down dear.

I have read the thread thanks, and that is the conclusion I have come to. You simply couldn't have said "Well it's good to know Gerrard rates him", you'd rather focus on something we all are aware of anyway - that he couldn't say otherwise publicly.

Do you actually believe he rates him, or do you think he was just saying it because he couldn't say otherwise?

[Craig_H]

Calm down dear.

I have read the thread thanks, and that is the conclusion I have come to. You simply couldn't have said "Well it's good to know Gerrard rates him", you'd rather focus on something we all are aware of anyway - that he couldn't say otherwise publicly.

Do you actually believe he rates him, or do you think he was just saying it because he couldn't say otherwise?

It's just annoying when you conclude something that is genuinely untrue.

I didnt just say 'Well it's good that Gerrard rates him' because i simply dont believe he does rate him that highly. I think he just said it, because it's the professional, 'politically correct' and 'right' thing to say.

And i dont have a problem with him saying it, i just dont think it's 'evidence' that Gerrard rates him.

[RedReet]

I'd imagine that there was a specific reference to Lucas in the line of interview/questioning. I dont think they'd have just randomly plucked him from nowhere, as a topic of conversation, unless asked.

And from that stage, obviously their answers will have a distinct tone of positivity.

Was Barnes’s not an open article he wrote himself rather than an interview, hence he felt the need to mention Lucas himself?

[Craig_H]

You may well be right there, and perhaps Barnes does indeed rate Lucas.

In fact, given his stint as Celtic manager, where he proved to be utterly useless, it wouldnt surprise me if his judgement was indeed that skewed, to the point where he rates Lucas highly

[RedReet]

Yes, it certainly doesn’t stand up to your impressive scouting record.

And let me get this right, we couldn’t take anything from the comments form Gerrard and Barnes because they were only responding to questions (no one else read)? Wait, they mightn’t have been responding to questions, but Barnes bought a few **** players and seeing as Gerrard hasn’t bought anyone their opinions can’t count?

Impressive input again…

[dww]

Possibly. But the point is, if he doesnt rate him (which is more likely, IMO), he cant come out and say it.

I agree with the broad point that quotes from press interviews are at best dubious evidence but I fail to see what evidence at all you have from this. It seems to me that you are rather assuming that any 'good' judge would agree with your assessment of the player.

[Craig_H]

I agree with the broad point that quotes from press interviews are at best dubious evidence but I fail to see what evidence at all you have from this. It seems to me that you are rather assuming that any 'good' judge would agree with your assessment of the player.

I've never seen or heard anyone, be it pundits, commentators, players, managers or fans, (aside from those with a Liverpool bias), express an opinion that shows them to be someone that particularly rates Lucas. Literally never.

Maybe it's coincidence.

As for 'evidence', nobody has any. What's your evidence that Gerrard rates Lucas, apart from a (dubious, as you acknowledge) press interview?

It's an opinion.

[dww]

Did I say I did? I thought all I said was that your claim that you thought it likely he didn't seemed a bit leftfield. I have no idea what Gerrard really thinks.

[Craig_H]

Did I say I did? I thought all I said was that your claim that you thought it likely he didn't seemed a bit leftfield. I have no idea what Gerrard really thinks.

Like i said dww, it's only an opinion. You can only land on one side of the fence, or the other - and my view is that Gerrard probably doesnt think Lucas is anything more than average to decent. With a certain amount of potential, granted.

You didnt say you had any evidence, no. But you made the point that i had no evidence, which implied to me that i needed some solid evidence, in order to hold the opinion that i do. Which i dont think is specifically the case.